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99% of the time "Judeo-Christian" is antisemitic. And yes, I will absolutely elaborate on this if asked.

Credit: @Rabbit Cohen

Edit because this blew up far more than I expected and multiple people have asked for me to elaborate, here's a copy of my elaboration with follow up questions encouraged:

It's a messy topic and it's late here (I'm a bit sleepy), so feel free to ask follow up questions.

The short version of it is that Judeo-Christian is almost always used in one of two harmful ways:

1) To try and give more credibility and weight to something that is purely Christian by claiming that it's part of Judaism as well when it's not (like the above example, because Judaism explicitly permits abortions)
2) To try and talk about broader groupings of related faiths while ignoring the many other Abrahamic faiths (the proper term, though that one more often hurts the lesser known groups, don't use it unless you also know it applies to groups like the Baháʼí, which I'll admit even I know next to nothing about, but it's valid here because all I'm doing is naming their religious family)

Because many (cough most cough) teach a bastardized form of Judaism through the lens of Christianity, and because that's the only exposure many get to our faith... they get skewed harmful and hurtful ideas about us.

Some highlight examples:
* We don't have an established afterlife (we don't say there isn't one, we just have zero information on it if there is)
* We don't seek "eternal reward", the reward for our faith is being a better person than we were the day before
* We have forgiveness baked into our faith, and no it doesn't require animal sacrifice (it requires you to actually ask the person you wronged...)
* We thoroughly encourage arguing any topic with anyone (right time and place of course), and that includes picking a fight with God if you think they're wrong about something (you have a 99.9% chance of being wrong... but we commend the effort and every once in a while someone wins the argument)
* We have a rule, Pikuach Nefesh, roughly meaning that life is the highest commandment. Your well being takes precedence over your faith, if it would hurt you or others to be observant than you are exempt from that requirement. It's unacceptable to hurt others for your faith, and for yourself it's frowned upon
* We actively discourage conversion, it's allowed but it's not a trivial process. We don't want people to become Jews, we just want people to be better.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
Unknown parent

Shiri Bailem
Shiri Bailem
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@Shannon (she/her) @Pedestriansfirst I suppose you're technically correct, I guess I usually never think about it because there's always more apt descriptions (ie. Nazis are often Zionists because "Blood And Soil").

And yes on the antisemitism of it, I just chose not to say anything about that in favor of a chance at education. (Also a love for getting into arguments with aggressive militant atheists because it's so fun to see their talking points shatter and the confusion that comes from it)

And I didn't bring it up later because I felt from the conversation that it wasn't going to be a problem again from them because they learned some things about Judaism, Jewish Culture, and that religions people can in fact own and acknowledge bad behaviors in their own communities.

@Pedestriansfirst @Shannon (she/her)
Unknown parent

Shiri Bailem
Shiri Bailem
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@Shannon (she/her) I don't think believing all zionists are jews isn't that messy of a idea because it impacts so little, especially since the zionist behavior of non-jews is already easily discernible on it's own as awful anyways.

And keep in mind that the comparison is that this started from assuming that all Jews condoned the atrocities committed by the Israeli government and has walked away knowing that it's not uniform.

@Shannon (she/her)

This is a long article, but the theory hits *hard* with me and connects really well.

The basic gist is that autistics almost always define our identities by what we do and our personal traits, while non-autistics almost always define their identities by their relationships (in particular to social groups)

If you don't have it in you to read all of it, definitely read the section: "How does having an experientially-constructed identity impact relationships?".

https://neuroclastic.com/the-identity-theory-of-autism-how-autistic-identity-is-experienced-differently/


The Identity Theory of Autism: How Autistic Identity Is Experienced Differently » NeuroClastic

Terra Vance posits that Autistic people experience empathy and emotions differently because the way autistic identity is structured differs from non-autistic people’s identity constructs.
Terra Vance (NeuroClastic)

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Shiri Bailem
Shiri Bailem
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@bike I suspect it isn't that much different. Collectivist societies can be awful in their own ways.

They're still better imo, but they have a tendency to focus too hard on traditions and conformity on top of the ideals of communal responsibility.

But in all cases it's a mesh of peer pressure and group identity vs our value identity.

@bike
Unknown parent

Shiri Bailem
Shiri Bailem
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@bike I get that, I mostly mention that so I don't come across as bashing collectivist societies incidentally. My point was more that I doubt there's that much difference for us, just swap out one set of rules that don't make sense for another set that don't make sense for a different reason.
@bike

Why You Must Keep The Monsters Human

*(Reposting because my node crashed and lost all my posts and I want to keep this one pinned)*

I've been mulling over making this post for a little bit, but I think it's really **really** important.

It's critically important that you remember and acknowledge the humanity of monsters. Not for their benefit, but for *everyone else's* benefit.

When someone commits a monstrous act or shares a monstrous belief, we want to think of them as an inherently vile and non-human thing.

But doing so shields and protects other monsters.

When you make a Nazi, or any kind of abuser, into a one-dimensional monster. When you make their whole existence *center* on this monstrous act or belief... you make it hard to see their humanity. And that's the point, you don't *want* to see their humanity.

*** You Don't Want To Believe That Someone You Know And Trust (Maybe Even Love) Is Capable Of Such Atrocity. ***

And that's the problem. Because when you reject their humanity, that humanity becomes their shield. Your friend Bob can't possibly be a Nazi or a child-abuser, he's such a loving father and he helped you move!

Because you see their humanity, you can't possibly imagine them as monsters because the monsters have no humanity in your eyes.

There's a reason that when serial killers get caught their neighbors say they couldn't imagine them doing such things.

So don't ignore their humanity, keep it in your mind... so the next one can't use it as a shield.

Content warning: Discussion of Israel/Palestine

#israel #judaism #zionism #Hamas #antizionism #IsraelHamaswar #antizionismisnotantisemitism
This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to Shiri Bailem

Rich Puchalsky :anarchism:
Rich Puchalsky :anarchism:
• •

As a Jew, I usually just say that I'm not a Zionist, because a focus on what Israel does is not central to my identity. I think it's fine for non-Jewish anarchists to say that they are anti-Zionist, though, because they are consistently against all states and all state ideologies.

People aren't going to get "Nazis are often Zionist" without more explanation. Better you than I.

in reply to Rich Puchalsky :anarchism:

Shiri Bailem
Shiri Bailem
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@Rich Puchalsky :anarchism: answered it over in this comment: https://foggyminds.com/display/c6ef095f-4265-7601-119e-11f680606673

Shiri Bailem

2023-12-10 18:18:57


@Gary @Charlie Stross (it's rarely used, but I think /srs is the punctuation to indicate seriousness, much like /s is sarcasm)

As far as answering that, it's a bit meatier which is why I chose not to include it in the original to avoid completely derailing.

Some of the common antisemitic reasonings behind goy "zionism":

  • Naziism - At the least in classic Nazi ideology, but still often present in modern Naziism and white supremacy in general, there's the idea of "Blood and Soil".

It's the belief that each "race" has rights to a certain land. The Nazis of Germany believed it was Aryans to Europe. As such those following "Blood and Soil" believe that the Jewish people have ultimate right to the land of Israel (as in they would fully endorse us launching a full fledged holocaust against non-Jews there). (I'll note that as always Nazis and white supremacists are always hypocrites. Side note this is the reason why many americans claim a distant "cherokee princess" relative, because it was a way for Blood and Soil Nazis to justify their supremacy in America)

  • Christian Antisemitism - Many Christians support Israel existing purely because they believe it coincides with prophecies with the end times. Short gist is that it amounts to the Jews in Israel will basically be forced to convert or die when Jesus returns. There's no basis in respect for Jews, just viewing us as essentially tools for their beliefs.


@Rich Puchalsky :anarchism:
in reply to Shiri Bailem Shiri Bailem reshared this.

burnoutqueen 🌹
burnoutqueen 🌹
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I would argue that if you believe that Israel should become a "state for all of its citizens" instead of "the state of the Jewish people", and include both Arabs and Jews as equal citizens, then you are an anti-Zionist. You don't need to call for the ethnic cleansing of Jews in Israel/Palestine to be an anti-Zionist. You just have to reject territorial expansionism, settler colonialism, and "Blood and Soil".

I consider myself anti-Zionist and believe the idea of an ethnonationalist settler colony to be absolutely ridiculous to me, regardless of where it is. I am also Jewish so there's that.

This entry was edited (1 week ago)
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