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Content warning: Discussion of Israel/Palestine

in reply to Shiri Bailem

Content warning: Discussion of Israel/Palestine

in reply to Gary Parker

Content warning: Discussion of Israel/Palestine

in reply to Charlie Stross

Content warning: Discussion of Israel/Palestine

in reply to Shiri Bailem

Content warning: Discussion of Israel/Palestine

in reply to Charlie Stross

Content warning: Discussion of Israel/Palestine

in reply to Charlie Stross

Content warning: Discussion of Israel/Palestine

in reply to Gary Parker

Content warning: Discussion of Israel/Palestine

in reply to Charlie Stross

Content warning: Discussion of Israel/Palestine

in reply to Gary Parker

@witewulf @cstross Ethnic cleansing ses like a very poor solution for the problem of ethnic cleansing.
in reply to Charlie Stross

Content warning: Discussion of Israel/Palestine

in reply to Shiri Bailem

Content warning: Discussion of Israel/Palestine

in reply to Gary Parker

Content warning: Discussion of Israel/Palestine

in reply to Charlie Stross

@cstross @witewulf Hard not to note that German, Italian, and various Balkan nationalisms were also terrible fucking ideas that killed tremendous amounts of people. Kind of feels like nationalism as an ideology was a terrible, murderous mistake in general.
in reply to EmbraceBecoming

it's often a mistake, but there are notable exceptions: ridiculous to see Ireland being better off as part of the UK at this point, Czechia and Slovakia splitting worked out fine, and so on. The problem is demagogues frequently use it to encourage their followers to beat up the neighbours (to divert attention from their own failures).
This entry was edited (6 months ago)
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Content warning: Discussion of Israel/Palestine

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Content warning: Discussion of Israel/Palestine

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Content warning: Discussion of Israel/Palestine

in reply to Shiri Bailem

As a Jew, I usually just say that I'm not a Zionist, because a focus on what Israel does is not central to my identity. I think it's fine for non-Jewish anarchists to say that they are anti-Zionist, though, because they are consistently against all states and all state ideologies.

People aren't going to get "Nazis are often Zionist" without more explanation. Better you than I.

in reply to Rich Puchalsky :anarchism:

@Rich Puchalsky :anarchism: answered it over in this comment: https://foggyminds.com/display/c6ef095f-4265-7601-119e-11f680606673


@Gary @Charlie Stross (it's rarely used, but I think /srs is the punctuation to indicate seriousness, much like /s is sarcasm)

As far as answering that, it's a bit meatier which is why I chose not to include it in the original to avoid completely derailing.

Some of the common antisemitic reasonings behind goy "zionism":

  • Naziism - At the least in classic Nazi ideology, but still often present in modern Naziism and white supremacy in general, there's the idea of "Blood and Soil".

It's the belief that each "race" has rights to a certain land. The Nazis of Germany believed it was Aryans to Europe. As such those following "Blood and Soil" believe that the Jewish people have ultimate right to the land of Israel (as in they would fully endorse us launching a full fledged holocaust against non-Jews there). (I'll note that as always Nazis and white supremacists are always hypocrites. Side note this is the reason why many americans claim a distant "cherokee princess" relative, because it was a way for Blood and Soil Nazis to justify their supremacy in America)

  • Christian Antisemitism - Many Christians support Israel existing purely because they believe it coincides with prophecies with the end times. Short gist is that it amounts to the Jews in Israel will basically be forced to convert or die when Jesus returns. There's no basis in respect for Jews, just viewing us as essentially tools for their beliefs.


in reply to Shiri Bailem

I would argue that if you believe that Israel should become a "state for all of its citizens" instead of "the state of the Jewish people", and include both Arabs and Jews as equal citizens, then you are an anti-Zionist. You don't need to call for the ethnic cleansing of Jews in Israel/Palestine to be an anti-Zionist. You just have to reject territorial expansionism, settler colonialism, and "Blood and Soil".

I consider myself anti-Zionist and believe the idea of an ethnonationalist settler colony to be absolutely ridiculous to me, regardless of where it is. I am also Jewish so there's that.

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