Random bit of trans vocabulary as I've recently seen people rejecting a phrase because they were confused by it.
"Socialized male" and "socialized female" aren't synonyms for someone's sex, they are experiences and culturally relevant.
People are confused because the term "socialize" has multiple meanings.
One is something done by you: "I was socializing with my friends"
One is something done to you: "I was socialized as a man"
To summarize Webster respectively:
The first is "to participate actively in a social group"
The second is "to fit or train for a social environment'
We say someone is "Socialized Male" or "Socialized Female" not to indicate what their sex is, but to indicate that in their formative years they were saddled with the expectations and treatment associated with "male" or "female" in our society.
The trans women getting confused think it means something like "grew up as men" or that our social groups were men, and that's not at all it.
It means we were treated as men.
We usually grew up with more women in our social circles than men, even if we didn't know we were trans yet. We were often seen as an exception, which means even our acceptance was flavored by it.
What "socialized male" means to me is that I grew up being labeled a predator and a threat by default.
Even if I wasn't specifically raised such, I was still affected by the fact that so many men were raised to believe it was okay to lie, cheat, and manipulate to abuse women. And because of that there was literally nothing I could say or do to convey that I was being genuine because far too many were dishonest about it.
I had to build entire patterns and routines of behavior around how to behave around women to make them feel safer, almost always to my personal detriment.
I to this day am still anxious and hesitant in so many interactions because for decades of my life they were forbidden to me because they were far too likely to make someone I care about feel unsafe.
When I say I was "socialized male" it means that was something done to me. I had to figure out how to navigate life and survive while being forced into a traumatic box by society that didn't remotely fit me.
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Mutual Aid Request (no cw because apparently some systems hide hashtag posts that have cws?)
gofundme.com/f/assist-a-jewish…
I'm on the last leg of preparing, apartment is nearly finalized and booking travel arrangements.
Unfortunately that's pretty much everything that's been donated so far by itself.
I can't do a flight mostly because my cat can't safely fly, and to a lesser degree to keep at least some of my things.
My current car can't survive the trip and the option we settled on is I'm going to rent a car and my beloved sister Chelsie is going to drive me up, then take a flight back.
We've got a wonderful friend covering hotel stays, but even then a flight and a cross country car rental is over $1000 combined... that's before we even get to gas.
I also still need some more funds for gas and deposits (because of credit issues my current place took a bond instead of a deposit, so I get nothing back, I almost didn't get an apartment at all because of those issues), plus any setup fees for utilities that come up.
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CW: mutual aid, escaping texas
An update on my request for help. It looks like the move is set, just got to get some final numbers for budgeting. At this point every little bit helps drastically in making sure I don't run face first into another roadblock.
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just going to say I can't believe this book has fucked me up... a trans magical girl story should not have me processing so much self-worth and self-hate trauma... this was supposed to be lighthearted comfort read dammit...
content warnings: big big trauma feels, parental emotional abuse (low detail), internalized transphobia, very mild external transphobia (one character intentionally misgenders), some suicidal ideation, and abuse of power by a mental health professional
Resharing this again, because I need the help and it's what it takes to get it.
Current update on things is that I've just gotten over nearly a solid week of sobbing... I'm struggling hard physically and mentally just to function at a base level right now.
The state I live in is just about to pass a bathroom bill, and it's a minor miracle that the drastically worse bills didn't move forward this session, but they're coming.
Until I have enough funds to feel remotely confident that I can afford the costs of the move all I can really do is just keep putting one foot in front of another.
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They're trying to spin a version of things that suddenly claims that most or all mass shooters are trans, despite zero evidence of that fact. And why are they doing that? Because it gives them an excuse for platforms like this...
This asshole is literally calling for me to not only be arrested, but experimented on!
... Things are speeding up.
I sorely need help getting at least to a state that will be more likely to defend me: gofundme.com/f/assist-a-jewish…
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Note: this is a copy/paste because I am so incredibly worn out emotionally I've been sobbing since Sunday over the whole situation. But what use is having a gofundme if I don't get it in front of people.
I hate spamming this out, but it's the only way this works, especially on AP-Fedi.
Gist is I need to get out of the state for my safety, and that's easier said than done with my disabilities, debts, and other limits.
My lease is up in mid-October, I really want to be able to just go straight from here to Washington State and even 2/3rds of this goal will make that happen... but the clock's ticking.
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I hate spamming this out, but it's the only way this works, especially on AP-Fedi.
Gist is I need to get out of the state for my safety, and that's easier said than done with my disabilities, debts, and other limits.
My lease is up in mid-October, I really want to be able to just go straight from here to Washington State and even 2/3rds of this goal will make that happen... but the clock's ticking.
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I hate spamming this out, but it's the only way this works, especially on AP-Fedi.
Gist is I need to get out of the state for my safety, and that's easier said than done with my disabilities, debts, and other limits.
My lease is up in mid-October, I really want to be able to just go straight from here to Washington State and even 2/3rds of this goal will make that happen... but the clock's ticking.
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Random bit of crying today... the prospect of leaving my safety net and being so distant from the people I love is overwhelming...
The fact that I need to change states for safety because nazis have taken over this country is so incredibly painful.
Please help out if you can, at least boost so that maybe others can help me out...
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Why do we have so many confusing identities and why should I remember them?
To be honest, you don't need to remember them unless they're relevant to you or those in your life. The only real reason to remember large quantities of them is to help people in their journeys and to help people feel not alone.
Labels, and especially micro-labels, aren't there for you. They're there for us. They're to help us communicate to ourselves that we're not broken, and to communicate to others that we're not just making it up from nowhere (not that you would be any less valid for doing so).
I'm trans because I'm not some broken confused man, I'm a woman, but also because my experience differs from cis women.
I'm gray-sexual, because I'm not defective, it's not some "performance issue". It's genuinely less interest and significantly less need. (Part of the asexual spectrum, it means significantly less sexual attraction or significantly less intense attraction, but not none. Not to be confused with libido which is the need for sexual release.)
I'm polyamorous, because I'm not non-committal or "want permission to cheat", but because I see relationships as ours to define, be it with a single partner or many. I can commit to one and I can commit to many, it's all about the agreements I have with the people I'm in relationships with.
One of the things that pisses me off the most is the people always saying "violence is not the answer".
Do you know why Nazi punching is a thing? Why it goes beyond just "fuck nazis"?
Let me break it down a little:
Is violence in self defense okay when someone is attacking you? Obviously, because they're attacking you and "please stop killing me" isn't going to make much difference to someone in the process of killing you.
How about when they're just pointing a gun at you but haven't fired? Yes, because if they pull that trigger you're going to die.
What about when they're just threatening you? Like if someone says "I have a knife and the moment no-one is looking I'm going to stab you"... do you just ask them nicely not to? Do you wait for them to start stabbing before you think it's okay to fight back? You probably recognize that words can be violence then.
Let's go a bit further... let's say someone is stealing and destroying a diabetic's insulin? This is a life saving drug, do you think it's valid to use violence to stop them even though it's not directly killing them? Then you probably recognize that violence isn't just physical attacks on a person.
How about someone rallying people to get together and kill someone? Do you just debate them or do you stop them?
So if someone says they believe trans people shouldn't be allowed to exist? That we shouldn't have access to basic rights like being ourselves in public, or access to our medications? These are people rallying others to attack us, to destroy the things that keep us alive. They may not be actively stabbing us in the moment, but it's still violence against us.
Nazi speech, Terf speech, etc. IS violence. And violence is the appropriate response to violence.
Note how we're not talking about punching someone for just being capitalist, for shouting about free market bullshit. We're talking about punching people calling for our eradication.
Again: violence is the appropriate response to violence.
As someone taking the opposite path from the below image:
I navigated it most of my life by constantly and obsessively managing my threat presence. It felt like a constant battle with the toxicity of other men. I had my guard up not because there was some threat of women assaulting me, but because watching their guard go up around me felt like being stabbed in the gut, like a lifeline getting cut off.
It took trauma and ego death for me to really start building an actual community for myself. I had bits and pieces I had gathered carefully and with great effort, but all that toxicity kept me from knowing what to do with it.
Now, even later, transition has been a massive weight lifted. (For those in the closet or eggs cracking: people clocking you doesn't make much difference here, if they put up that anti-creep guard around you they're a bitch anyways)
I feel like I can breathe. Connection is so much more casually there. I can see it in people's eyes, I can be in a crowd of strangers and I feel drastically less alone.
Unfortunately, those years of malnourished pain don't just disappear. I still have all of those threat management patterns, I feel like I'm scarred and sometimes even bleeding from that. There's a caution in me, afraid that people will misinterpret, that this wonderful person I want to make friends with will abruptly shut down on me and then disappear from my life if I relax too much, if I'm too open... I still feel like I'm emotionally walking on tip toes...
#lgbt #lgbtqia #trans #transmasc #transman #transfemme #transfem #transwoman #toxicMasculinity #Patriarchy
This past year has been intense, and especially these past few years... I look at the me from a decade ago and I barely recognize them. Hopes and dreams have changed, life upended multiple times. Disowned my relatives and now I've adopted a large chosen family. Gone from alone to feeling loved by so many people, and one especially in particular. My egg finally cracked. I started HRT. Changed my name twice. Been traumatized multiple times. Unpacked so much fucking trauma. Moved so many times. My profession took off. My profession crashed and burned. And I'm about to start it all over again.
I just turned 39 last friday... and honestly I feel really hopeful for my future... even with a new holocaust looming over my head. But I also look back and am happy where I am...
#LGBT #Trans #TransWoman #Life #Family
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And some of the trauma I've been unpacking:
- I get incredibly anxious now when someone I care about is uncomfortable, especially if I might be connected to that discomfort. It goes beyond fawning and can easily turn into me pestering them with excessive check-ins and an overbearing effort to try and comfort a discomfort that may not even be there.
- I'm scared of physical intimacy... I've always craved it, I need it... but I don't really pursue it like I need anymore.
- I've realized I can get callous very quickly when I sense potentially malicious manipulation, it serves me well but I recognize now that it's definitely the sign of something broken that I can become coldly calculating so quickly
- I have a powerful resistance to gaslighting that I've developed from a lifetime of people attributing reasons and understandings to my actions that were not there, from just accusing me of non-existent disrespect (#autism) to calling me lazy when I'm suffering from executive dysfunction.
- I am constantly terrified of how I'm perceived and especially that I might be distrusted... I spent most of my life wanting to connect with people, predominantly women (go figure I wanted to be friends with women more than men in retrospect...) and being shut down because I was seen as a man... because there was not a single action I could take that they didn't already do to try and manipulate women... (well... I finally found one action they won't take lol)
- While I no longer have a broadly negative self-image, I can say positive things about myself and believe good things about myself... a nugget of dissonance still remains. A part of me still struggles to believe I can be loved despite all the blatant evidence in front of me. I know that part is wrong, but it makes all my love given and received feel so very very raw.
- I spent so very very long isolated, especially emotionally... What love I felt wasn't healthy, it was mostly the love of obligation that you get in dysfunctional conservative families. Having spent my whole life without feeling it, genuine love is incredibly overwhelming... I think about my family and it feels like I'm stretched taught over a creaking barrel ready to blow from pressure... So when the people I love give me a way to show them love, it feels like an intense pressure valve release.
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I made a guide, it's clumsy and sloppy but it's something.
This is for setting up GPG on Android for people who need secure communication that can't be shut down and doesn't rely on government services, especially trackable services.
foggyminds.com/extra/OpenKeyCh…
Tagging trans community because I think we need these networks for when things get worse.
#security #GPG #LGBT #TransFemme #Trans
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Whelp... it didn't take long for them to pivot from "children" to "everyone".
This is almost certain to pass and means that if I'm still in the state come September I lose access to my medication.
legiscan.com/TX/text/HB3399/20…
#lgbtqia #lgbt #trans #We'reFucked #uspol
Texas HB3399 | 2025-2026 | 89th Legislature
Bill Text (2025-02-26) Relating to the provision of procedures and treatments for gender transitioning, gender reassignment, or gender dysphoria and the use of public money or public assistance to provide those procedures or treatments. [Filed]LegiScan
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Something I felt like i should share, because I really don't think many realize...
I don't say this to surrender, I say this to say how big the fight is and how important each and every one of you is to it.
Do you know when the vast majority of people realized how real the threat was of the holocaust?
... when they saw a pile of shoes when the camps were being cleared out.
The holocaust meant nothing to those fighting the war, it would have been trivial for the allies to save so very very many lives... they simply didn't really care, they didn't see our suffering as real... until they saw that pile of shoes.
Don't count on Trump or the Republicans to finally be recognized for the Nazis they are and the majority to suddenly be in revolt.
Prepare for a fight and know that every fighter counts.
And know that every life saved matters, especially when the threat is extinction.
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Reminded yet again how I'm pissed at people surrendering and calling it victory...
A reminder: if you're part of the "Block Bluesky/Threads By Default" crowd, you're just handing over victory.
Enshittifying the fediverse because you're afraid of big corpos and think everyone who isn't already here can just die in the hellhole fire of the other networks, "How DARE People Suggest We Build Fire Exits!".
So yeah, screw that self absorbed bullshit.
People are leaving the fediverse for Bluesky, why? Because people over here demand purity to random ideals, because people over here think it's unreasonable that someone might want to connect with friends and loved ones who made a different choice of network.
This is part of a much bigger problem... pissed that I'm surrounded all my life by people who think holier than though infighting and rejecting anyone who isn't pure enough in their ideals, instead of y'know actually pushing for changes that protect people.
I'm staring down the barrel of a gun in my life as my country falls apart to fascism and I'm in the top two of most hated and most at risk minorities... but at least y'all kept people on Bluesky from realizing the fediverse even exists...
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Day One: They're starting an investigation that will probably lead to them revoking my passport in the near future.
They're starting another investigation into supposed harmful effects of HRT (odds are results will be complete bullshit), which they'll use to enact further actions prohibiting me from getting my HRT.
whitehouse.gov/presidential-ac…
#lgbtqia #lgbt #trans #transwoman #uspol
DEFENDING WOMEN FROM GENDER IDEOLOGY EXTREMISM AND RESTORING BIOLOGICAL TRUTH TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT – The White House
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including section 7301 of title 5, UnitedThe White House
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Nothing like reading a lesbian superhero novel and being able to viscerally feel all the romantic and touchy feely elements thanks to them actually being present in your life.
I love my partner so much, I knew I longed for these feelings but nothing in the world could prepare me for how they actually feel. How intense it is to just be loved like that, or how quickly they can shut down your entire nervous system with just their fingertips...
#Lesbians #LGBT #Reading #Love #Relationship
I'VE GOT MY PASSPORT BOOK!
THIS IS A HUGE FUCKING RELIEF!
For those not aware, I've been without valid photo ID for ages, let alone ID with my correct name and gender marker.
When I got my name and gender marker change order done a few months back, just before I could get in the state office to get a new ID (and I was having issues with them actually sending me a non-temporary one regardless...) they decided they were going to start ignoring court orders and putting anyone who tried to get their ID updated on a list.
Thankfully that's only at the state level and the only thing that matters there is drivers license. I was born in a state that is very supportive of updating my birth certificate, and the federal government still accepts the forms just fine.
So the passport isn't just me able to leave the country reasonably, it's also a valid photo ID with my correct name and gender which I haven't had in ages (and has been the thing holding me back from updating things like bank accounts).
#uspol #transfemme #transfem #transwoman #NameChange #transition #LGBT
wait a minute. Trans people are the real Americans!
/j /j idek what I’d be starting with this omfg /j
Totally beyond overwhelmed right...
Moves wildly overwhelm me in the best of times, but now I'm:
* getting over being sick, still losing sleep from coughing and occasional debilitatingly painful coughing fits
* still exhausted from recent overwhelming emotional labor a couple of weeks ago
* massive anxiety over being hyper aware of increasing threats to my safety from !the fucking government! for being trans and how it's even fucking with my ID and ability to legally drive (I literally have no valid photo id right now, and terrified that'll block me from moving in)
* next month is an election that determines whether this country continues its descent into mirroring Nazi Germany
* nevermind that sickness and anxiety kept me from attending The High Holy Days at synagogue!
* or the fact that said synagogue still has the persistent reminder of being firebombed back in 2021 and anti-semitism is only getting worse so I'm always a little afraid when attending
I just... can't... but I still have to keep moving somehow...
#lgbtqia #lgbt #trans #usa #america #texas #emergency
Trans Texans Can No Longer Change the Gender Marker on Their Drivers Licenses
Until this week, trans residents could change their gender marker with a court order or amended birth certificate.James Factora (Them.)
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I don't think it's talked about enough tbh.
When my egg cracked, there was a sense of dread... because once I knew there was no going back. My life would never be safe again.
Do I regret it? Not one bit, I'm genuinely happier now, but I do miss safety...
reductress.com/post/trans-woma…
Trans Woman Would Actually Rather Be Safe Than Brave
In an uninspiring story out of Chicago, 28-year-old Shelly Deichman would actually rather be safe than lauded as brave for simply existing as a trans woman.Reductress
Pro Trick I've Learned To Land A Hot Girlfriend: Become A Girl
#trans #TransFemme #LGBT #LGBTQIA
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Getting your first cat-call as a trans-femme is such a weird disorienting feeling...
It's honestly super gross... but then... gender euphoria? ... but still creepy and gross.
#HRT #TransFemme #trans #lgbtqia #lgbt
My mood has improved so damn much this past week... I don't know what caused it but I feel more alive and happy.
And that's before kissing a girl and learning I'm 3 inches shorter than I was before HRT...
#lgbt #lgbtqia #trans #TransFemme
Fun fact: I lost 3 inches since starting HRT and am now 5'7" (that's about 170cm for you standardized folk, and around 7.5cm off)
#HRT #Trans #TransFemme #LGBT #LGBTQIA
Feeling gratitude
I'm feeling really grateful today and just wanted to share that feeling.
I'm grateful for...
* Living in a time when HRT is available
* Having easy access to it even though I live in the state of Texas
* Being blessed by the boob fairy (46B after 6-months when most trans-femmes are lucky to hit A-cup after 2 years... insert suspense tone for what that means for later)
* HRT absolutely demolishing body/hair growth and making everything very manageable
* Liking pickles before HRT so it's not as confusing
* HRT feminizing my face enough that I feel comfortable going out without makeup
* My hair, which was just a short mess before... now just magically grew into a cute bob with zero effort (and this is it's maximum length... I do lament not having longer hair though)
* Having an incredibly supportive adoptive family
* Skirts, dear god the skirts I've got now are so damn comfy
* Randomly knowing how to adjust my voice properly so I skipped voice training entirely
* A work from home job that allowed me to easily transition before ever worrying about work
* A Christian boss (also owner of the company) who was baffled at the idea I even had something to worry about with coming out at work... in a traditionally conservative industry
* Being born it Illinois which makes it trivially easy to update my birth certificate (just waiting on the legal name change documents first so I can do both at the same time)
#LGBTQIA #LGBT #TransFemme #Trans #TransWoman #Pride #HRT #AntiCisTamines #TittySkittles #AntiBoyotics #Boobs
* being grey-ace and not phased by the shrinkage
* not really having bottom dysphoria... that shit's expensive AF
99% of the time "Judeo-Christian" is antisemitic. And yes, I will absolutely elaborate on this if asked.
Credit: @Rabbit Cohen
Edit because this blew up far more than I expected and multiple people have asked for me to elaborate, here's a copy of my elaboration with follow up questions encouraged:
It's a messy topic and it's late here (I'm a bit sleepy), so feel free to ask follow up questions.
The short version of it is that Judeo-Christian is almost always used in one of two harmful ways:
1) To try and give more credibility and weight to something that is purely Christian by claiming that it's part of Judaism as well when it's not (like the above example, because Judaism explicitly permits abortions)
2) To try and talk about broader groupings of related faiths while ignoring the many other Abrahamic faiths (the proper term, though that one more often hurts the lesser known groups, don't use it unless you also know it applies to groups like the Baháʼí, which I'll admit even I know next to nothing about, but it's valid here because all I'm doing is naming their religious family)
Because many (cough most cough) teach a bastardized form of Judaism through the lens of Christianity, and because that's the only exposure many get to our faith... they get skewed harmful and hurtful ideas about us.
Some highlight examples:
* We don't have an established afterlife (we don't say there isn't one, we just have zero information on it if there is)
* We don't seek "eternal reward", the reward for our faith is being a better person than we were the day before
* We have forgiveness baked into our faith, and no it doesn't require animal sacrifice (it requires you to actually ask the person you wronged...)
* We thoroughly encourage arguing any topic with anyone (right time and place of course), and that includes picking a fight with God if you think they're wrong about something (you have a 99.9% chance of being wrong... but we commend the effort and every once in a while someone wins the argument)
* We have a rule, Pikuach Nefesh, roughly meaning that life is the highest commandment. Your well being takes precedence over your faith, if it would hurt you or others to be observant than you are exempt from that requirement. It's unacceptable to hurt others for your faith, and for yourself it's frowned upon
* We actively discourage conversion, it's allowed but it's not a trivial process. We don't want people to become Jews, we just want people to be better.
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@Shannon (she/her) @Pedestriansfirst I suppose you're technically correct, I guess I usually never think about it because there's always more apt descriptions (ie. Nazis are often Zionists because "Blood And Soil").
And yes on the antisemitism of it, I just chose not to say anything about that in favor of a chance at education. (Also a love for getting into arguments with aggressive militant atheists because it's so fun to see their talking points shatter and the confusion that comes from it)
And I didn't bring it up later because I felt from the conversation that it wasn't going to be a problem again from them because they learned some things about Judaism, Jewish Culture, and that religions people can in fact own and acknowledge bad behaviors in their own communities.
@Shannon (she/her) I don't think believing all zionists are jews isn't that messy of a idea because it impacts so little, especially since the zionist behavior of non-jews is already easily discernible on it's own as awful anyways.
And keep in mind that the comparison is that this started from assuming that all Jews condoned the atrocities committed by the Israeli government and has walked away knowing that it's not uniform.
This is a long article, but the theory hits *hard* with me and connects really well.
The basic gist is that autistics almost always define our identities by what we do and our personal traits, while non-autistics almost always define their identities by their relationships (in particular to social groups)
If you don't have it in you to read all of it, definitely read the section: "How does having an experientially-constructed identity impact relationships?".
neuroclastic.com/the-identity-…
The Identity Theory of Autism: How Autistic Identity Is Experienced Differently » NeuroClastic
Terra Vance posits that Autistic people experience empathy and emotions differently because the way autistic identity is structured differs from non-autistic people’s identity constructs.Terra Vance (NeuroClastic)
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@bike I suspect it isn't that much different. Collectivist societies can be awful in their own ways.
They're still better imo, but they have a tendency to focus too hard on traditions and conformity on top of the ideals of communal responsibility.
But in all cases it's a mesh of peer pressure and group identity vs our value identity.
Why You Must Keep The Monsters Human
*(Reposting because my node crashed and lost all my posts and I want to keep this one pinned)*
I've been mulling over making this post for a little bit, but I think it's really **really** important.
It's critically important that you remember and acknowledge the humanity of monsters. Not for their benefit, but for *everyone else's* benefit.
When someone commits a monstrous act or shares a monstrous belief, we want to think of them as an inherently vile and non-human thing.
But doing so shields and protects other monsters.
When you make a Nazi, or any kind of abuser, into a one-dimensional monster. When you make their whole existence *center* on this monstrous act or belief... you make it hard to see their humanity. And that's the point, you don't *want* to see their humanity.
*** You Don't Want To Believe That Someone You Know And Trust (Maybe Even Love) Is Capable Of Such Atrocity. ***
And that's the problem. Because when you reject their humanity, that humanity becomes their shield. Your friend Bob can't possibly be a Nazi or a child-abuser, he's such a loving father and he helped you move!
Because you see their humanity, you can't possibly imagine them as monsters because the monsters have no humanity in your eyes.
There's a reason that when serial killers get caught their neighbors say they couldn't imagine them doing such things.
So don't ignore their humanity, keep it in your mind... so the next one can't use it as a shield.
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Shiri Bailem
in reply to Shiri Bailem • •For those familiar with dog training:
Your dog socializes with other dogs.
You socialize your dog to teach it how to behave in public.
One is something the dog does, the other is something you do to the dog.
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Charlie Stross
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to Charlie Stross • •@Charlie Stross enculturate might be more accurate in some ways, but it feels much less familiar which means it requires more explanation.
But I do think the lack of context is probably what's throwing people off, particularly in that they're so many steps removed from the definition.
"Socialized male" is basically shortened from "they socialized me male" (transitive verb form) vs people are confusing it with "I socialized with men" (intransitive verb form)
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Charlie Stross
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Shiri Bailem likes this.
pixelbandito
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Charlie Stross reshared this.
Charlie Stross
in reply to pixelbandito • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to Charlie Stross • •@Charlie Stross @pixelbandito I mean I think more people than can spell socialization correctly...
"Indoctrinate" is a pretty good word and pretty close, but I honestly think it's too dramatic and is way more active than what we're talking about.
"Socialization" in general is a process we all go through in which we're introduced to and steeped in our cultural norms and values. Not all of it is accepted, not all of it takes, but it all affects us. Like how as an american I was steeped in US propaganda far more intensely than someone in the UK.
The term is talking about how during socialization we were also immersed in the expectations of manhood and masculinity.
Isaac Freeman
in reply to Charlie Stross • • •Shiri Bailem likes this.
Tattie
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •in no context or meaning was I socialised male.
I accept that some trans women were. I accept that you may have been.
But I was treated closer to a girl than a boy, growing up.
Shiri Bailem
in reply to Tattie • •@Tattie That's why I pointed out that it's non synonymous with assigned sex and is a perfect example!
Most trans women unfortunately are, at least in western society. Many if not most of us don't even realize we're trans until adulthood, so we grow up being treated as men by society.
For those like yourself who were treated otherwise, I'm grateful knowing that not all of us did.
This is in response to people who were interpreting "socialized male" as them socializing as men or primarily socializing with men, neither of which being the meaning of the term. If it meant that, it would be accurate to push back against it as we were never men and we very often socialize primarily with other women.
In it's accurate meaning, it's an important term and important to understand especially for cases like yours to define what makes your experience different. But also so that between our two experiences we can highlight what parts of our experience is inherent to being a trans woman and what parts are specific to being socialized male.
Tattie
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to Tattie • •@Tattie I'm not grateful that it sounds like you were socialized female, tbh it kinda sucks for everyone all around.
But at least it sounds like you were socialized in a way that aligns with your identity.
Also I'm just generally grateful that it's not a uniform experience.
Tattie
in reply to Tattie • • •there was like this pattern where I'd go somewhere new and for like half an hour people would treat me as a boy, and it would be weird and confusing for everyone, and then there would be this "click point" and they'd switch to the way that everyone always treated me, as a strange boygirl creature.
I think maybe I went thru a phase of "male socialisation" for a few years during university? And it didn't bring me any more happiness than my childhood had. But then slowly I started hanging out with more and more woman-dominated friendship groups and being treated as an "honourary" one of them. And then I transitioned.
lp0 on fire
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •@shiri, this looks very much like “$ITEM is releasing on $DATE” vs. “$ITEM will be released on $DATE” to me. I'm quite sure that people just don't see or possibly even understand the difference.
I'm never quite sure why, exactly, $ITEM is holding on to $DATE, and I'm never quite sure what happens if $ITEM doesn't release $DATE – do we just skip that day?
Shiri Bailem
in reply to lp0 on fire • •@lp0 on fire ... that's the most confusing way I could imagine someone saying "I can't tell the difference between transitive and intransitive verbs"
merriam-webster.com/dictionary…
"socialize" in this context is definition 1 of the transitive form of the verb. People are confusing it with the definition of the intransitive form.
Or if you want to dive specifically into the word socialization itself: merriam-webster.com/dictionary…
They're confusing 1a with 1b.
lp0 on fire
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to lp0 on fire • •@lp0 on fire transitive/intransitive is not about the relationship to the subject.
Both "doing to" and "being done to" make a verb transitive. Which is the what you were showing.
Intransitive on the other hand is simply "doing" with explicitly no subject beyond the person doing it.
lp0 on fire
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Juniper 🏳️⚧️🌲 (baking?)
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to Juniper 🏳️⚧️🌲 (baking?) • •@Juniper 🏳️⚧️ In regards to the transphobes, any term or phrase about our experience will get used in that way. Not because the term in any way implies it, but because they will bend over backwards to make that claim about us any way they can.
So I don't see any point in dancing around transphobes, all we get down that road is a semantic treadmill.
And yes, how we respond to it varies greatly. The term is unidirectional because it refers only to what was done to us, not how we responded to it.
We all have wildly different responses and experiences, same as anyone else.
The phrase is talking about how we were treated and what expectations were put on us by society.
And "Socialized Trans Female" is a step backwards because not all trans women dealt with male socialization, just the vast vast majority. (Example: a girl who transitions at a young age and is supported in her transition is socialized female)
This is an all too frustratingly common case of people complaining that a simplified phrase doesn't perfectly encompass a whole paragraph's of concept.
If we throw out this term we simply lose a tool to explain and describe our experiences, nothing gets improved.
If someone can come up with a better term to mean "Grew up with society/guardians treating you with the expectations it associates with <gender>" then we'll all hop on board.
Juniper 🏳️⚧️🌲 (baking?)
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •you are writing as though this phrase is commonly used by trans people in this sense. That has not been my experience. I have known far more trans people who actively reject the idea that they are socialized as their AGAB. Your experience may be different, but that is where I am coming from. And I don't think that this is dancing around transphobes; in my experience it is primarily used in a transphobic way, so that is the first way I expect it to be understood. My objection is not that the phrase is insufficiently descriptive, but that it is actively inaccurate.
I was not socialized male. Coming to understand that has been a significant part of my transition. I spent a long time with the self-conception that I was "not like other guys". Realizing that I am actually a pretty standard trans woman has been a trip. And I've also come to realize that I was not treated or even seen on the same way as the cis boys around me. I remember my mom saying once (not to me), after she had babysat her nephews for an afternoon, that now she understood what it was really like to have boys. This fits a pattern that was present throughout my childhood: people did not quite see me as a boy, even though they thought they should. And consequently, they didn't quite treat me as a boy, though they certainly didn't treat me as a girl.
I don't entirely understand your objection to using " trans female socialization". Certainly it is true that trans girls who have their gender recognized young will have a different experience of socialization than those who do not. But trans girls also have a significantly different experience of socialization than cis boys, and putting them into that box is more harmful than having a concept of trans female socialization that is not 100% universal. (No such concept will ever be completely universal. It will certainly differ along other axes like race, region, and socioeconomic status.) 1/2
Juniper 🏳️⚧️🌲 (baking?)
in reply to Juniper 🏳️⚧️🌲 (baking?) • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to Juniper 🏳️⚧️🌲 (baking?) • •@Juniper 🏳️⚧️ ugh... socialization has absolutely no reference to how we respond to it.
This is an actual academic sociology/psych term and is entirely about the environment we were raised and the expectations we were raised with.
For instance, someone who grows up in a conservative household and community is socialized conservative, this is regardless of whether they ever accepted any of it.
If you're assigned male across the majority of your interactions growing up, that's what this means. It doesn't mean you are a man, it means you had to deal with the traumas of being treated as one.
And yes, this is something that's shared with cis boys, because it's not about how we responded to it.
Like I've said elsewhere, if we transition early and are accepted then we don't deal with it because we get socialization that matches our real identity.
Saying trans female socialization literally means that we were raised with the expectations that we would act and behave as other trans femmes.
I'm American, I was socialized hyper-capitalist... does that make me a capitalist? No. It means I dealt with the expectations and trauma of hyper-capitalist expectations being put on me.
What about being socialized Christian (which basically means growing up in a Christian, even non-practicing, home), does that make me not Jewish? Nope. Do I get "Christian Privilege" for it? Hell no. Does that mean people can call me Christian? Still no.
And we do end up with many of the traumas of cis boys/men, the difference is for us is that it's in stark relief as we move away from those expectations and re-socialize ourselves.
Socialization is explicitly the expectations that were put on us and not how we responded to them.
If you want to talk about socialization specifically in how we responded to it? It's failed socialization, they wanted us to be men and we rejected it, they failed. But failure doesn't mean we didn't deal with them trying, it just means it didn't take.