There's this social phenomenon that happens to me, that I've never really understood.
The gist is that people ask me for advice, I give them advice, they follow half that advice, and then get very angry when not following the other half of that advice results in the exact outcome I told them it would, and then ask for more advice but preface it with "but don't say [thing I already told them]"
and ... I just don't get it?
Like, "help me learn to do this thing, but don't make me learn anything new or do anything hard" is impossible.
I'm being vague, I should give examples.
josef
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •People ask me for technical advice, seeing that I am a technical person and a business owner, about how they should start their own arts business.
I tell them some practical stuff like "It's hard, but I think it's worthwhile", and "I think there's some merit in using platforms like Etsy and Instagram that are controlled by other people to kickstart, grow, and accelerate your operation, but I strongly recommend not being fully dependent on any platform you don't control. Run a website with a store, run a mailing list. Put as much effort in to those as you do Etsy or Instagram"
Or sometimes it will happen slightly differently. In those cases, frequently on the fediverse, I'll make a blanket statement about something bad that a Platform has done and follow it with some variation on "This is why you have to own your platform." and sometimes also "This is why the fediverse is so important."
In either case, I'm often met with a litany of responses and replies that are all variations on "You shouldn't judge people for being non-technical" or "not everyone has the time to run software" or some combination of reasons why I should feel bad about having rightly judged that the commercial platforms are dangerous. Sometimes I get called ableist for pointing out the fact that Facebook is actively exploiting people.
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •And, of course, the answer here is that this is a ND vs NT thing, I'm sure.
But, like, Etsy will fuck you over. Patreon will fuck you over. That's the nature of the animal!
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •I'm thinking about this today in response to Etsy rolling out some changes.
I'm not an Etsy seller, so I can't speak to these changes directly. Only indirectly based on the long litany of complaints I sat through yesterday from someone who I've tried to help in the past, but who did not heed my advice.
(In this particular case, they now understand why I gave them that advice, and they are working to implement it so that they can become less dependent on Etsy, but ... I mean, they're already suffering from significantly reduced income and it will be much harder to build a new channel after the old one has collapsed, rather than using the success of the old one to build the new one. )
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •So Etsy has rolled out some changes.
I don't know when. I just know that they did.
One of these changes makes it easier for people who are not selling antiques or making things by hand to sell low quality drop shipped goods on Etsy.
One of these changes makes it harder for people who are making things by hand to do business by penalizing them much more heavily for slipped shipping dates. (This issue is probably only impacting a subset of handmade sellers, but it impacted my friend because they have had a couple of spates of bad luck with some handmade stuff lately, the upshot of which is that several of their orders in a row slipped by 6+ weeks (with the full knowledge and consent of the buyer.) Under the new etsy rules, those would be automatically refunded.)
There's also at least some evidence of a significant drop off in search traffic, but that's neither here nor there.
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •The seller that I was speaking with is trying to build a store page from scratch. She's currently handling a few orders from some of her previous repeat customers via email, but the fact that they're able to do this is hinged on some mixups that resulted in her ended up with their email addresses.
She does not have a way, outside of etsy, to reach most of her customers. She does not have a way, outside of etsy, to be discovered. She doesn't have a way, outside of etsy, to do business without starting from scratch.
This is a bad situation for her, because her Etsy revenue is significantly lower than it has been in previous years, both because of the changes that Etsy has made and because this year has just been rough on retail.
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •She asked me what I would do in response to these etsy changes, and ... well, I told her what I would have done, but it was all contingent on also having done the *other things that I would have done*.
I would have included a coupon in every order I sent out on etsy that could be redeemed on my website directly. I would have had a website. I would have asked my Etsy customers to sign up for my mailing list. I would encourage my instagram customers to sign up for my mailing list. I would not put an etsy link on my business cards, even if Etsy was the only place I was selling.
If I was in her situation, I would be leveraging my existing social connections, email marketing, and existing online store to offset the loss of Etsy revenue.
But she hadn't done most of those things, so we had to talk not about how to Use those resources, but how to build them while operating at a disadvantage.
Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •I've ended up not using businesses and initially going to their competitors because they neglected their social media presence to such an extent all that was left was an outdated Google Maps picture that made it look like they had gone out of business, I didn't use FB at the time and even then (like many others) they neglected *all* their social media presence (even the corporate ones).
I find some businesses also simply don't answer emails or phone calls..
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •And, like, this is a big part of what I've been focusing on and thinking about lately -- Not because a platform screwed me over, but because in-person retail (especially in Appalachia) also had a *very bad* year this year, and I'm also starting from scratch in a new industry.
But I'm playing a long game of *how do we build a business that will still exist in thrive in 10 years* not *how do I get my revenue back to normal by this time next year*.
So what I'm doing and what she needs to do are different.
Robin Black
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •But the upshot of all of this is the same:
- If you are dependent on any single company, product, or platform for your business, the can fuck you.
- This includes things as nebulous as counting on google to continue to rank you well in search results, or to even *send traffic to web pages instead of the google info box*
- This absolutely includes things like Linktree. What even is their business model? A DIY linktree replacement shouldn't cost more than $15 a year, and can't be turned to shit.
- If you do most of your marketing through, for example, Instagram, you should be doing everything you can to use that marketing to get people to engage with you off of instagram.
- If you do most of your sales through, for example, Etsy or Ebay, you should be doing everything that you can to convert customers from Etsy or Ebay to something that is fully within your control.
- When business is good, focus on making sure it will continue to be good in the future by using the fact that business is good to push people to platforms you control.
- When a platform goes to shit suddenly, stop putting effort or time in to it. Use whatever remaining presence you have on that platform to point towards the places you control.
- Don't let online consume you. Even if you are a primarily web based business, find ways to protrude into the real world.
reshared this
Clark W. Griswold #resist and Andrew (Television Executive) reshared this.
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •It is absolutely unfair that anyone should have to learn anything about web hosting and payment processing to sell things online.
It's absolutely ableist that etsy (or whichever other free and easy platform) can't be trusted.
It is absolutely cruel that the modern web is designed to extract as much as it can from you, and to give as little back as possible -- to make you dependent on their services, and then to make those services worse and worse at your expense.
reshared this
Adam Dalliance and Andrew (Television Executive) reshared this.
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •It sucks that the only advice I can give people who are trying to Start A Thing is "whatever else you do, own your platform" but that's the core.
Whatever else you do, own your platform.
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •And yes, "Own Your Platform" extends to computers.
Using a Debian machine is a pain the ass!
But no one can take it from me, and if the debian foundation were to suddenly disappear, I'd have a few dozen alternatives.
Apple, it appears, is forcing signed binaries on all mac users in the name of security (but actually as a profit-making exercise.)
Windows is feeding everything you do to your computer in to their AI, and then forcing their AI on you.
I do not like the current state of linux, but it is the platform I can control.
Andrew (Television Executive) reshared this.
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Andrew (Television Executive) reshared this.
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •If you're a game maker and you don't sell your game through steam you are missing a huge audience of people who only buy games on steam.
If you're a game maker and you only sell your game through steam, you are at the mercy of a company that does not have your best interest in it's core mission and will almost certainly fuck you over at some point, and you're missing a large audience that does not buy from steam.
What's the best path forward? I dunno! Too much work, but that's the hand we've been dealt.
Andrew (Television Executive) reshared this.
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Sensitive content
Now, the above thread is at least in part also about bluesky.
Not because I have anything against bluesky directly (some of what they've done is really interesting. I'm sure a great community is forming there. The early days of a network are always a lot of fun) but because Bluesky has investors now, and those investors are going to expect a return.
And it'll take a while. Things will be great for a while. There will be a lot of fun to be had and a lot of attention to go around and very little that you are viscerally upset about.
But, eventually, the piper will call the tune. You don't raise that kind of money from blockchain VCs for an altruistic project, it just doesn't happen.
Eventually, that platform will also turn on you.
Andrew (Television Executive) reshared this.
Hairy Larry
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Sensitive content
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •So, if you find yourself wondering how to build the future, it is perhaps worth considering what Power Structures exist, and what you can replace them with.
The Future will still need art, it will still need news and entertainment, it will still need music.
(But it will need new ways for these things to be shared.)
The Future will still need cups and bowls and plates (perhaps you have an interest in pottery, or glass making?) The Future will still need clothes (perhaps you want to learn to weave, or dye.)
We'll need *fewer* things made, because so much of waht is made today goes straight to a landfill. We'll be able to recover and reuse and recycle much of what currently exists, but those things will eventually break or need to be replaced, or otherwise not be fit for purpose.
hairylarry
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •This is a great thread. Is it ok if I post it on my blog?
I'm still on tumblr for my band pages but I am mostly using my own software, Plain Text Programs, that I designed to be easy to use and maintain. Most people can't write their own programs but most people can use my Plain Text Programs which are easier to use than most alternatives. By design.
So that's my blogs, galleries, directory listers, music players, internet radio with widgets, etc.
part1
#software #ownyourplatform
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to hairylarry • • •@hairylarry Be my guest.
I'll also add that tumblr has a decent export story, so you at least own your data (and, I believe in your case, your domain name) even if you don't own the whole platform.
hairylarry
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •I do own my own tumblr domains.
Tumblr want to be your domain provider now so ???
I only repost to tumblr so the data is not an issue.
Why I love tumblr and stay with them for my band pages is because of the ease of aggregation makes my band websites more than just occasional updates.
Bebop Beatniks has a lot of other jazz posts too. Jazz Buskers features buskers from around the world. All just by reblogging.
And there has been some good with the new owners too.
#tumblr
hairylarry
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Using my Plain Text Program, Embed Mastodon Threads.
home.gamerplus.org/permalink.p…
Here's the easy way to use this program.
home.gamerplus.org/Embed_Masto…
Thanks
#embed #mastodon #ownyourplatform #plaintextprograms
Hairy Larry's Blog - Own Your Own Platform - Permalink
home.gamerplus.orgAndrew (Television Executive)
in reply to hairylarry • • •Charles U. Farley
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •It's the same problem as "Just because 'use Linux' isn't a solution doesn't mean Windows and MacOS won't fuck you". This world is designed to exploit people, and not being exploited is fundamentally hard and requires skill. If there were a simple, nontechnical solution to avoid being exploited, everyone would be using it instead of getting exploited.
Maybe that's the thing to open with?
Billy Smith
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Always remember to have more than one route towards your customers. :D
This was the main reason that Jim Wier was able to say No to Walmart.
archive.ph/5VQ3
Andrew (Television Executive) reshared this.
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Billy Smith • • •FediThing 🏳️🌈
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •@BillySmith
This is really good:
"...he looked into a future of supplying lawn mowers and snow blowers to Wal-Mart and saw a whirlpool of lower prices, collapsing profitability, offshore manufacturing, and the gradual but irresistible corrosion of the very qualities for which Snapper was known. Jim Wier looked into the future and saw a death spiral."
Enshittification described in 2006 😮
Garrett
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •It's that way w/ music, too, unfortunately.
I spent like 5 hours uploading a single album to a bunch of places. And now, with the new places that have popped up over the last year, I'm probably going to spend 8 hours on the next one.
Garrett
in reply to Garrett • • •Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Garrett • • •Garrett
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Garrett • • •@garrett What I mean is that we have to make a new game, rather than playing the old game, or the game that they're trying to sell as the new game.
Spotify and youtube don't work for artists outside of very limited circumstances.
Robin Black
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Garrett
in reply to Robin Black • • •Robin Black
in reply to Garrett • • •I can't see putting in so much effort into platforms that pay a fraction of a cent per play being a route to a livable career. There has to a be a better way.
I'm sure between us we can figure one out?
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Garrett • • •Kit Rhett Aultman
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Andrew (Television Executive) reshared this.
LJ
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •1/2
hairylarry
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •I agree but I still need the Internet Archive for things like my Something Blue radio show.
archive.org/details/somethingb…
Because of the way laws are in the United State today I need to post to a third party. I've never had a show taken down because most musicians want to be on the radio, but if Internet Archive got a DMCA complaint they would take it down.
If it was self hosted I would be in copyright violation.
And I used to think they were safe. Much more likely to last. But now???
Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free & Borrowable Texts, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine
archive.orgAndrew (Television Executive) reshared this.
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to hairylarry • • •@hairylarry Yeah, that's absolutely a concern and a growing one these days.
It's also evidence of a major policy failure IMO.
Sean Kleefeld
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Andrew (Television Executive) reshared this.
Megazillion
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Joe
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Billy Smith
in reply to Joe • • •One of the reasons for creating a monthly newsletter is to remind your customers that you exist. :D
VulcanTourist
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •bhtooefr
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •also one thing that’s worth doing, even if you’re stuck on a single company’s platform right now: buy a domain name and make it redirect to that platform
not on your own domain name for your e-mail? buy one and forward its e-mails to your current provider, and start handing out the address on your domain name
this makes it easier to migrate off. not easy (well, for e-mail it’s pretty easy to change providers if you do this), but easier.
bhtooefr
in reply to bhtooefr • • •Fish Id Wardrobe
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Billy Smith
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •aschmitz
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Sensitive content
I can't tell if "I just don't get it" is inviting comments from the cheap seats or not, but one potential read of the situation is that you've implied running your own thing should be about as much effort as getting going on Etsy, and Etsy was enough for them (both in terms of "a large chunk of effort" and "provided enough revenue") that they didn't feel the need to do their own store, and expected that if they needed to switch, they could.
(That is, possibly they did not understand that in order to handle a platform possibly screwing them up in the future, they needed to have already had the other stuff up and running as a pipeline with people in it that came from other platforms, because organic discovery from scratch is often all but impossible. And possibly they read the advice as "these are equally as hard, I think you should do both" without one relying on the other being concurrent.)
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to aschmitz • • •Sensitive content
*|FNAME|* 🇨🇦
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Wayne Werner
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Andrew (Television Executive) reshared this.
Andrew (Television Executive)
Unknown parent • • •@arrrg This conversation is among the things I like the least about being a debian user, honestly.
I've been running one linux distro or other as my primary OS since kernel 2.2 added support for TFT screens so I could install Redhat on my laptop. I don't need advice, I've been here for just about as long as it's been possible to be here.
The majority of my complaints are the kind of death by 1000 cuts that that come from having an OS that is designed by committee.
The current Gnome desktop has some defaults I dislike, lots of the packages in the main repos are 10+ years old for no good reason. While it is still *possible* to do things in weird/non-standard ways, so much of the underlying system has been obfuscated from view that it is often difficult to figure out where the default behaviors are defined so that I can override them.
But, ultimately, I can fix most of the things that bother me (with enough effort) so I keep using it.
Totally with Ю ⁂
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Andrew (Television Executive)
Unknown parent • • •@arrrg For sure.
Re-reading that, the top line comes across as aggressive and dismissive, which was not what I was aiming for. I'm going to try that bit again.
I don't like talking about what's wrong with Debian (or any other linux Distro) because I feel like it puts too much focus on a bunch of tiny problems that are fairly easy for me to personally fix, and it invites people to discuss the ways that those problems could be fixed by me, as an individual.
My concerns about Debian are mostly about what it's like to use it when you don't have 2+ decades of experience with it. It's about solving problems for Communities and casual computer users, rather than for someone like me who has both the language to fully articulate the problems and the technical skill to solve them for myself.
And I don't think those larger scale problems are going to get solved in a way that benefits communities through conversation between users.
They're systemic, not individual, issues. (But, again, they're mostly smaller than the issues you're likely to run in to on windows or mac, so I lament that they exist, I solve them for myself, and I move on.)
Andrew (Television Executive)
Unknown parent • • •Sensitive content
ClaraBlackInk
Unknown parent • • •because they'll feel obliged to prop up the company that makes things easier for them.
It's abusive and it works because the companies are good at selling this idea that you can do it alone if only you use their platform/software. AI companies are doing this grift.
But, seeking out community resources, asking for help when there's something that's just really not working for you, is so much more sustainable. And it's important to see people who need those resources.
Shiri Bailem
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • •Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •@shiri I think that we don't give people (in general) enough credit for being capable and confident, and that we give individual people too much grace for being horrible.
I hope all of Sharon's friends make fun of her for this, and I hope people don't accept it as exemplary of normal or acceptable behavior.
Shiri Bailem
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • •@Andrew (Television Executive) I think it's a paradox, we give them too much credit and too little credit at the same time.
People come to us for advice with things because it's things they don't want to do, they're probably secretly hoping that we'll just do the whole thing for them because if they really wanted to do it they'd probably have learned it themselves.
From there, Dunning Kruger takes over, they think they understand our instructions better than they actually do and then start deviating.
This is made worse by the fact that we remember negative things easier than positive, they stand out for their ridiculousness but the ones who take our advice properly hardly stand out at all.
Billy Smith
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Sensitive content
The Albini Rant is still relevant:
web.archive.org/web/2019071502…
Translate the terms from Music Industry job titles, to VC-fund/Start-Up job titles, but the predatory behaviour is the same.
The Problem with Music | Steve Albini
The BafflerAndrew (Television Executive)
Unknown parent • • •@SarraceniaWilds
I would recommend going with either a pre-built open source store platform that has an existing integration with a couple of payment processors, and then picking one or more of those, more or less at random. (I use paypal and stripe.) OR paying for a dedicated storefront.
Until recently, I would have said Wordpress and Woocommerce without any hesitation, and begrudgingly mentioned squarespace (which is a fine platform, but it's too expensive and I don't know what their lock-in story looks like. They aren't open source)
Right now, the best option I have to offer is still Wordpress with Woocommerce, but I'm less confident in them than I was previously. It's still the platform that you're the most likely to retain full control over. (Specifically, that's the open source wordpress.org, not the proprietary wordpress.com)
As far as payment providers you, your best bet is still probably paypal, but having a backup option (shop pay, woopayments, stripe, square, etc.) might be a good idea both for when Paypal inevitably goes down and in the event that paypal decides to mess you up.
This does not have to be something that you DIY. There are *many* companies out there that exist to run these kinds of softwares on behalf of non-technical or too busy users. In spite of the fact that I do this professionally and have for decades, I've also using one of these companies at various points in the past. The trick is to find someone local to you who is charging a price you're willing to pay, rather than trying to find someone online.
And, in that case, use whatever shopping cart platform they recommend.
Andrew (Television Executive)
Unknown parent • • •@SarraceniaWilds Oh absolutely.
I understand why it happens, and how it happens, and that's the magic that keeps Etsy running. They offer an illusion of safety, and a very real ease of use.
As far as payments go, every payment processor has it's own gateway. You won't be responsible for CC numbers, just shipping addresses. For Paypal that means they'll actually finish the transaction on paypal's website. For stripe and similar, they'll just have a widget that gets installed on your website.
For the most part, it's currently safe to operate in this space without a lawyer, I dunno if that'll be true forever.
Having someone to count on for the technical stuff is hugely beneficial. I'd be shocked if there isn't someone local who can do it for under $20 a month. (But if you can't find someone, or you want to try the DIY route, I'm happy to write a guide up and answer questions.)
Paul Riismandel
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •Pete Prodoehl 🍕
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •This is a great thread, and I pretty much agree with everything... but also, I am a techie/nerd who runs a side/hobby business so I'll share some thoughts.
Over a decade ago when I launched a product I sold it on my own web site, using PayPal as the processor. I didn't think it was right for Etsy because it was an electronic device, not a "handcrafted" thing...
🧵
Pete Prodoehl 🍕
in reply to Pete Prodoehl 🍕 • • •And eventually I saw someone (sort of) copied my product and had it on Etsy so I figured "fuck it" I need to also be on Etsy because the competition was there.
Etsy sales have been good for me, and I price accordingly to deal with their fees and forced opt-in advertising crap.
Oh, I have the email of every single customer because I copy that data into my own software. If I need to quit Etsy I can, but...
🧵
Pete Prodoehl 🍕
in reply to Pete Prodoehl 🍕 • • •I set up a Square shop a few years ago, but made almost no sales there, and didn't want to pay a fee each month, so it was too limited in what I could configure.
A friend of mine really loves Shopify (and has recommended it) but since this is a side/hobby business for me I don't want want to spend what limited time I have doing all the admin work to launch a whole shop and make sure I get enough sales to cover the fees.
(Yes, that's on me, and my situation is a bit different.)
🧵
Pete Prodoehl 🍕
in reply to Pete Prodoehl 🍕 • • •And I get why Etsy is popular, because they make it easy and really cheap to get started.
The fees can get high. I see new sellers complaining they barely make anything after fees, but then also say they cannot raise prices because they won't make any sales...
I'm sort of okay offloading the marketing and discoverability to Etsy knowing it will cost me (in fees) because I do not have the time to spend doing all that.
I know not everyone has that luxury though...
🧵
Pete Prodoehl 🍕
in reply to Pete Prodoehl 🍕 • • •And I do live my life knowing that Etsy could collapse for me at any moment or they could ban me or shut down my shop...
I have all the text and images & data for my products, and I have contact info for every customer.
And if I have to rebuild it all, I will (or I'll just give up).
A few years ago I had to redo every single product when one (main) component became unavailable, and it took time, but I did it.
(This whole Capitalism thing is a real pain in the ass, if I'm honest.)
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Pete Prodoehl 🍕 • • •@rasterweb That's more or less the point I was making (both that this whole capitalism thing is a pain in the ass & that you can use etsy without being dependent on etsy.)
Set yourself up for success. Use the tools that are available, but be ready for them to be mysteriously taken away or broken.
Pete Prodoehl 🍕
in reply to Andrew (Television Executive) • • •"Use the tools that are available, but be ready for them to be mysteriously taken away or broken."
This! 100%. I've been around long enough to see it and have it happen... more than once. And I too warn people.
Andrew (Television Executive)
in reply to Pete Prodoehl 🍕 • • •