Mastodon vs the Fediverse
I don't mean this title as a comparison, but as an antagonistic relationship...
I've been off-and-on in the fediverse for longer than Mastodon has existed, I've followed the building of the fediverse since before ActivityPub ever existed.
I still consider it a blessing the explosive growth that happened within the fediverse... but I'm honestly sickened by the Mastodon effect of it...
So many of the new people hopped on Mastodon and thought that fediverse is just another name for Mastodon... some people even got so far as thinking fediverse is just another name for ActivityPub...
And people came with so many flawed views of what they think the fediverse is as well as completely unrealistic ideas of what it should be.
So many people see it as this miracle pill against all the evils of corporate social servers like Twitter, fixing every single problem that's ever existed in those communities.
... Those people are completely delusional... but they're loud and violent.
They get pissed off any time they run into the actual fediverse... they get pissed off when they realize there's platforms other than Mastodon that don't even remotely behave like Mastodon or especially their imaginary version of Mastodon.
And frankly... I'm getting pissed off at the entitlement of these people.
They think the fediverse is all about their consent on who can see their posts... this is like going to a waterpark and complaining that you didn't consent to getting wet... you went to a waterpark! When you post on the fediverse, you have consented... if you don't consent then you don't post to the fediverse. Reminds me of the annoying cycles of people sharing blocks of vaguely legal looking text to Facebook to try and override the TOS, thinking they can just say "I don't consent to the TOS" to get out of it when you explicitly consented by joining and you revoke that consent by leaving.
They think this is the place for private insular communities... because they walked into an empty park and thought "this public space is mine and will never have crowds of people wandering through". They get pissed at the idea of Meta joining the fediverse with Threads because it means there might be actually be a crowd walking through this public space...
They fuss about community as if their little tiny corner of the fediverse is the whole thing. They mistake their standards and agreements as those for the whole fediverse.
And worst of all these people will actively harass someone over expanding the federation of the fediverse in a way that's not only normal, but part of the specific design of how this place works... especially as these people are so damn clueless they think this is a single instance they can just tear down with pitchforks as opposed to just the one that briefly crossed their attention.
People who want to actively destroy the fediverse by isolating it, breaking it, and otherwise trying to "control" it can get bent.
boB Rudis 🇺🇦 #NeverGoingBack reshared this.
This. This. This.
Great read that breaks down everything wrong with the whole bridgyfed drama.
A libre networking project that’s designed to bridge protocol spaces together announced its progress and intentions, and Mastodon users freaked out.https://wedistribute.org/2024/02/tear-down-walls-not-bridges/
Tear Down Walls, and Build Bridges
Recently, Ryan Barrett re-announced his Bridgy Fed project to the Fediverse. As a service, it's designed wih one specific goal in mind: to make parts of the decenralized social web that speak differenSean Tilley (We Distribute)
Jamie Booth reshared this.
Watching people freak out over someone making a bridge to another fedi platform...
Do people even know how the fediverse works? Interoperability?
Boggles my mind how much impact people think a shittily moderated instance will impact the broader system.
People flip over the idea of connecting to Bluesky or Threads... how many of you know about the trainwreck of Nostr and it's AP bridge? That's the worst network of them all and you still don't hear about it, which tells you everything you need to know.
Vanessa likes this.
reshared this
A quick test...
@skye 🏳️⚧️ he/him @hadeantaiga Friendica connects to Tumblr as a puppet account, so none of it is on the fediverse but just in the same feed.
I suppose they probably didn't connect the comments because that would get weird with a whole lot of comments being only visible to you (a whole of context management to figure out if you're replying via tumblr or AP, and whether or not the person you're talking to can see the relevant tumblr or AP comment)
It does offer a quick button to get to the original post immediately though, which is helpful (for Friendica users, the top right little arrow beside the network icon).
I think the feature mostly works to let you post and not worry about leaving a chunk of your audience out. Though I imagine it could use some work and if you have ideas they're always listening on the github: https://github.com/friendica/friendica/issues
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Introduction post!
Hello! My name is Eli, I'm a transmasc butch from Tumblr. I'm slowly poking my way around the Fediverse and I'm looking for an interface that lets me do long-form blogging. Friendica is allegedly good for that, so here I am!
Grad student, certified "Moon Nerd".
Nonbinary butch transmasc. Masculine like a misty mountain forest, queer as in fuck you. Converting to Judaism slowly but surely.
Interests:
Games: #Pathfinder #DnD #DragonAge #DiscoElysium #TheSims #CivilizationIV
TV: #Trigun #StarTrek #OurFlagMeansDeath #YouTubeVideoEssays
Books: #SherlockHolmes #TheExpanse #LordOfTheRings #TheHungerGames #SciFi #Fantasy
@hadeantaiga Welcome to the server/fediverse! And welcome as a fellow trans jewish convert!
I'm more than happy to answer any questions you may have with Friendica and to help you figure out if it's the right place for you... but if you go somewhere else please link because you definitely have me interested in your introduction!
Also what's your Tumblr, Friendica supports following Tumblr feeds, and this spurred me on to finally setting up the Tumblr addon which allows crossposting to Tumblr (it does require access to your Tumblr to do so, but uses Oauth so doesn't have your password or control over your account, just the ability to post).
@hadeantaiga friendica's upside is connecting to everything that allows it to connect, downside is that it's a little less user friendly.
Followed your tumblr!
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Linus
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to Linus • •@Linus I'm all for relays just because they reduce the programming load... programming one system vs every different platform having to program a separate support. Notably few platforms do this anyways for other protocols (you don't see any mastodon instances supporting the diaspora protocol for instance). Let alone relays are better for interoperability, if I boost/reshare a post from a different network on Friendica it's basically going to disconnect it from the source... even other friendica instances won't see it connected like they would from a relay (let alone the fact that this bypasses moderation tools).
I definitely think it's the usual of people imagining a threat rather than actually perceiving one. We can readily block relays if necessary, and there's just as much risk of a new relay popping up as a blocked instance moving around, so it makes no difference in blocking.
And of course people freak out about privacy all the time. It annoys me to no end how little people care to learn about their privacy while still freaking out over things that have little impact on their privacy. They're posting publicly and getting upset that strangers can see it...
Linus
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •I concur. This might be a bit of a controversial take right now, since a lot of people are still riled up; but I feel the opt in/out consent issue also boils down to it being similar (or maybe technically identical, I need to look more into how the relay would work) to a new instance joining fedi. I understand people not wanting their posts on bluesky. but at the same time, the way fedi works, you don't need to get everyone's consent to spin up a new instance, that would be ridiculous. If bluesky decided to support AP or even spin up a dedicated AP instance (people would likely treat them similar to threads, moderating them to whichever degree they'd like), there likely wouldn't be a discussion about opting in or out of threads seeing your posts. It's just how fedi works X3. I also understand that there could be cultural differences between fedi and bluesky users, but once again that's a moderation issue that we have the tools to manage. If you don't want to interact with bluesky users, much like users of any other instance, you don't have to.
Also the relay being in the instance is totally just a convenience thing X3 you make a good point about the extra effort to implement and maintain an entire separate system, let alone getting them to work together. I'm gonna keep dreaming though!
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Some Guy Named Chris
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Shiri Bailem likes this.
Kevin Karhan :verified:
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to Kevin Karhan :verified: • •Vanessa likes this.
Kevin Karhan :verified:
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •I've yet to see credible evidence that #BlueSky would ever #decentralize and not be what it already is:
A #Twitter clone for people with #StockholmSyndrome towards #JackDorsey...
Also federation with the #Fediverse literally would require it to implement and support #activitypub
Needless to say not everyone wants to federate with them...
Vanessa likes this.
Shiri Bailem
in reply to Kevin Karhan :verified: • •Kevin Karhan :verified:
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •*pressing X for doubt re: AT*...
I've yet to see any functional implementation of it to this day outside of #BlueSky...
Also @jwildeboer already said everything that needs to be said re: #bridgy....
https://social.wildeboer.net/@jwildeboer/111930855638166288
Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:
2024-02-14 16:48:35
Kevin Karhan :verified:
in reply to Kevin Karhan :verified: • • •#TLDR: Fedi never asked for this and it's considered a as much as an asshole move as violating the #robotstxt and literally DDoS'ing a site with a Crawler like #ByteDance does regularly using #ByteSpider...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi5sd3WEh0c
https://github.com/greyhat-academy/lists.d/issues/48
http://www.robotstxt.org
The creators of TikTok caused my website to shut down
YouTubeShiri Bailem
in reply to Kevin Karhan :verified: • •@Kevin Karhan @Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange: this honestly doesn't violate the social norms of the community at large, just a very angry small subset who feel entitled to dictate the norms for a community that predates them and includes many many other groups who feel differently.
It's very telling to me that as usual the loudest voices are all on the least compliant platform of the fediverse...
Vanessa likes this.
Kevin Karhan :verified:
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •@jwildeboer Hey, I'm just complying with the robots.txt and I think #BlueSky is just valueRemoving to the point that I in fact block their domain and bridges on my account...
Again: It's my personal decison re: my account.
Feel free to self-host tho...
Stephan Schwab
in reply to Kevin Karhan :verified: • • •Shiri Bailem likes this.
Osma A
Unknown parent • • •@jwildeboer
And that's precisely what's different in Bridgy Fed - it will be bidirectional and allow true follow/response relationship over the networks - because both networks enable federated read/write/follow. That is qualitatively different functionality vs bridges to networks that allow read-only. It also means that a follow request implies opt-in as core feature.
A better comparison is Matrix's bridges to XMPP, Slack, WhatsApp, Discord, etc.
@shiri @kkarhan
Shiri Bailem likes this.
Kevin Karhan :verified:
Unknown parent • • •@jwildeboer There's a reason why a lot of instance block these #report-#bots like https://tweets.icu because they are seen as #ValueRemoving and #Spammy...
Tho these are just cluttering at worst...
Kevin Karhan :verified:
in reply to Osma A • • •@osma @jwildeboer Yes, and like these bridges, they are #ValueRemoving:
Maybe the idea of using i.e. [self-hosted] #Zulip or #XMPP is precisely not to have to deal with the #Enshittification of #WhatsApp and the inacceptable #ToS of it and it's competitiors...
If I want to use some proprietary & centralized garbage I would've made that choice, regardless if #Signal, WhatsApp, #Telegram, #Discord, #Line or whatever...
Osma A
in reply to Kevin Karhan :verified: • • •No one is forcing you to interact with networks you don't want to. For people who value people over technology, bridges enable freedom from walled gardens, and denying the use of bridges by others is freedom-limiting. Your freedom to not use bridges is not more valuable than other people's freedom to choose them.
@jwildeboer @shiri
like this
Shiri Bailem and Vanessa like this.
Kevin Karhan :verified:
in reply to Osma A • • •@osma @jwildeboer
Again: You have the choice to #SelfHost and not limit yourself to anything whatsoever...
But one should also have the freedom to not deal with such spambots to begin with.
Whether that decision should be made individually, by vote.from the users of an instance of sole.discretion of the moderators is a discussion I'll not waste my time with, so I'll move on!
Shiri Bailem
in reply to Shiri Bailem • •Just FYI, I've got zero interest in people bringing their whiny bullshit to my posts on the topic. So I'm just blocking strangers who bring the fight here.
I've had my fill of self-centered assholes who want everyone to bend over for their bullshit unrealistic vision of federation.
Your ideal version will never exist and your rage at finding out it doesn't can go fuck itself.