Fediverse! I’ve been building a bridge to Bluesky, and they’re turning on federation soon, which means my bridge will be available soon too. You’ll be able to follow people on Bluesky from here in the fediverse, and vice versa.
Bluesky is a broad network with lots of worthwhile people and conversations! I hope you’ll give it a chance. Only fully public content is bridged, not followers-only or otherwise private posts or profiles. Still, if you want to opt out, I understand. Feel free to DM me at @snarfed@indieweb.social (different account than this one), email me, file a GitHub issue, or put #nobridge in your profile bio.
A number of us have thought about this for a while now, we’re committed to making it work well for everyone, and we’re very open to feedback. Thanks for listening. Feel free to share broadly.
Re-introducing Bridgy Fed
Hi! I’m Ryan. I’ve been building social network bridges and related tools for over 12 years, including Bridgy, which connects personal web sites and blogs to centralized social networks…snarfed.org
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Bou
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Blake Leonard
in reply to Bou • • •Jesse Baer 🔥
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Roni Laukkarinen
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •jakob 🇦🇹 ✅
in reply to Roni Laukkarinen • • •@Roni Laukkarinen @Ryan Barrett
Use Friendica... and you can do it now!
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:jan::abreath:🌬:dandelion:
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •:jan::abreath:🌬:dandelion:
in reply to :jan::abreath:🌬:dandelion: • • •mimo
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •JP
in reply to mimo • • •Re-introducing Bridgy Fed
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DJ Sundog - from the toot-lab
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to DJ Sundog - from the toot-lab • •@DJ Sundog - from the toot-lab @Ryan Barrett @Ryan Barrett The entire fediverse is opt-out.
If you'd like an opt-in fediverse I recommend finding or setting up a whitelist instance.
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DJ Sundog - from the toot-lab
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Shiri Bailem
in reply to DJ Sundog - from the toot-lab • •Amoshias
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •we're not talking about the entire fediverse, we're talking about this bridge.
Please reread what you're replying to before you reply.
Cloudbreaker
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Stephan Schwab
in reply to Cloudbreaker • • •Shiri Bailem likes this.
David B. Himself
in reply to Cloudbreaker • • •How is that for your privacy?
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Carolyn
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Blake Leonard
in reply to Carolyn • • •Zatty :meowybara:
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •JP
in reply to Zatty :meowybara: • • •AP-AT-Bridge Group reshared this.
Blake Leonard
in reply to JP • • •AP-AT-Bridge Group reshared this.
JP
in reply to Blake Leonard • • •Shiri Bailem likes this.
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JP
in reply to JP • • •AP-AT-Bridge Group reshared this.
Blake Leonard
in reply to JP • • •Shiri Bailem likes this.
eishiya
in reply to JP • • •The difference is that when you post to the Fediverse, you expect your post to be federated within the Fediverse via its native means. One consents to this type of content propagation when they make posts on Fedi.
Bridging is something beyond that, and is not something one consents to when making posts on the Fediverse.
Edit: Please stop boosting this, and check out the replies by much better-informed people!
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JP
in reply to eishiya • • •Is Threads much different though? They integrate using ActivityPub in the same way. I block that “server”, and Meta doesn’t (legally) get my data.
With both Threads & Bridgy you’re notified when you’re followed by someone from there, so there’s visibility, but bridgy needs exact username too. This feels okay to me, but I get it feels odd!
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Shiri Bailem
in reply to eishiya • •@eishiya @JP you should know that Bluesky, once they start federating (which this is directly related to)... is the fediverse as well.
Please do not confuse Mastodon/ActivityPub with the whole fediverse. The fediverse is a wide array of servers and there are many bridges between different protocols out there already.
And on the topic of consent, this is a purely public system. Consent within the fediverse is opt out, when you post publically you are automatically consenting to anyone receiving and transmitting your post however they wish. If you do not wish to provide that consent, you make your post private.
Bridges are a natural part of federation and are key to it's survival as it makes all relevant platforms less likely to collapse.
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eishiya
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •This is a good point, and I should know better than to conflate AP services with the whole Fediverse.
After I made that post, I did think about how this is different from federating with, say, Diaspora, which I personally don't have a problem with. I think the difference is that Bluesky is a corporate product that offers no reason to assume good faith. Same deal with Threads, which uses AP.
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eishiya
in reply to eishiya • • •My problem isn't so much with federating with Bluesky, but with the opt-out mechanisms this bridge offers. They are all non-standard (not part of either protocol), with the exception of instance-level blocks. If user-level blocks (e.g. me personally blocking the bridge domain) works, then I'm less bothered, but AFAIK OP hasn't responded to that query.
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Shiri Bailem
in reply to eishiya • •@eishiya You blocking the bridge domain will work just the same as blocking any other instance, they won't be able to answer that really because that occurs entirely on your server and not theirs (I don't believe there's any AP protocol for "Hey X user@domain has blocked you").
I do really like their approach to providing opt-out mechanisms specifically because not all platforms have user level domain blocking available. Especially as they're implicitly suggesting a standard with the nobridge hashtag in the bio as it would be a great universal way to request an opt-out of bridges by default if it became broadly accepted... though the backlash here might hurt that.
As far as the corporate aspect of it... yeah, all the corporate platforms are awful and I genuinely hate them. The only reason I'm in favor of bridges like this is because I dream of the fediverse becoming the norm, that corporations can be better dis-empowered by connecting than isolating (ie. they see that it's better over here, so choose to leave Bluesky for AP, and the bridge then makes that transition relatively painless for them, as opposed to the segmentation that happens with no bridge)
I've never once spoken out against people choosing for themselves whether to block an instance, only against the backlash efforts where people moralize over it (ie. considering blocking threads a moral imperative, or demanding that someone's passive bridge between open and public networks be opt-in instead of opt-out).
eishiya
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •I think hashtags are a poor mechanism. Bio space is often limited, and bios are intended to be read mainly by humans - people want them to look nice and not be full of hashtags like nobridge, noai, nobot, etc.
I think if there's no protocol-level opt-out possible, the next best thing would be to provide a low-spoon way to opt-out, such as via a form. "Contact me on socials or open an issue", however well-intentioned, comes off as requesting more effort than is reasonable for many folks.
Shiri Bailem
in reply to eishiya • •@eishiya something like a google docs form is not unreasonable, though I think the "contact me on socials" is easier so long as you don't have social anxiety lol
For reference though, the hashtag idea is mostly for the lack of protocol level options. This doesn't mean OP chose to not implement such options, but rather that such options just don't exist in the protocol. They had to write extra code to make the system parse your bio for that tag before allowing the content through the bridge, which I do consider to be very considerate.
Olivier Simard-Casanova 🦋
in reply to eishiya • • •Bluesky is not a "corporate product"
Almost all of it is open source, in the exact same way that almost all of Mastodon is open source
Sure, there is a company behind it, and it operates all of its services at the moment. But there are also companies behind many Fediverse related projects and services, including Mastodon.
Daisy Doo & TuxieGirl Betty
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Shiri Bailem
in reply to Daisy Doo & TuxieGirl Betty • •Daisy Doo & TuxieGirl Betty
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Daisy Doo & TuxieGirl Betty • • •@Stevie Cat, Daisy Dog & Betty So I guess you're one of those who have joined Mastodon in the second Twitter migration wave in November 2022, and who still "know" that the Fediverse is only Mastodon. Their nice and cosy and fluffy Mastodon.
Well, then I've got a very very uncomfortable and upsetting truth to reveal to you: The Fediverse is not only Mastodon. It is more than just Mastodon.
There's a whole lot more stuff in the Fediverse, and all of it is connected to Mastodon just like Mastodon instances are connected to one another.
For example, there are dozens of other Twitter-like microblogging projects. Mastodon forks such as Glitch or Hometown. Pleroma. Pleroma forks such as Akkoma. Misskey. Dozens of Misskey forks such as Firefish, Iceshrimp, Sharkey, Catodon, Hajkey, Meisskey etc.
There are "Reddit clones" like Lemmy or /kbin.
There is the "Instagram clone" Pixelfed.
There is the YouTube stand-in PeerTube.
There is the Twitch stand-in Owncast.
There are the "Medium clones" WriteFreely and Plume.
There is the "Goodreads clone" BookWyrm.
There are the Facebook alternatives Friendica and (streams) as well as Hubzilla which goes well beyond being a Facebook alternative.
And a lot more.
All this is in the Fediverse, and all this is connected to Mastodon, whether you want or not. It's normal. It's intended. It's the very idea behind the Fediverse. And it has always been the idea behind the Fediverse.
Look at my mentions, how weird they look. Look at my hashtags, how weird they look. Look at this post and how it exceeds 500 characters. Look at my bold type. Look at my italics. All stuff that Mastodon can't do.
But how can I possibly do it if Mastodon can't do it?
Because I'm not on Mastodon. I'm on Hubzilla. Hubzilla is not a Mastodon instance. Hubzilla is not even a Mastodon fork. Hubzilla is developed completely independently from Mastodon. And Hubzilla is almost a year older than Mastodon. And yet, I can read what you've posted, and I can reply to you.
That's because Hubzilla is part of the Fediverse, just like Mastodon is. And it has always been.
CC: @Shiri Bailem @JP @eishiya
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Sharkey #Catodon #Hajkey #Meisskey #Lemmy #kbin #/kbin #Pixelfed #PeerTube #Owncast #WriteFreely #Plume #BookWyrm #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #NotOnlyMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #FediverseIsNotMastodon
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Daisy Doo & TuxieGirl Betty
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •Tim Chambers
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ademir@lemmy.eco.br
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •SuperMoosie
in reply to JP • • •The difference is it is a commercial network. We have not signed up to the TOS AND he is copying everything with out permission from the user.
We did sign up just to the fediverse, not to make content for a billionaire.
If people want to post elsewhere they can sign up for the TOS.
It needs to be OPT IN If people want to use it.
@zatnosk @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
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Kay Ohtie
in reply to SuperMoosie • • •Considering each instance can have its own terms of service, this is a legal space that is largely untested currently. My thoughts are that the legality will boil down to "follow each instance terms", but it's an amazingly complex thing even there. And I say this even as an instance owner who thinks that bridgy should be explicitly opt-in either per-post, per-user, or per-instance.
Per-instance, to me, kind of makes the MOST sense for having an 'opt-out' tag in the bio -- each instance owner is then making their own users aware of the policy and can give them advance notice if they don't wish to be included. Just having a global "we can have your information even if you're unaware of it" policy is half the problem of the current tech industry snarfing up damn everything as if it's theirs to use, causing all the LLM garbage issues today.
Hell, the fact I'd have to end my wifi SSID in _at least_ two weird tag things, and one of them MUST be the last one, to avoid my wifi SSID, BSSID, and location getting snarfed by mapping cars (google, MS, etc) is just part of this. I have to take up limited characters in my bio for each service I want no part in? I have to make my SSID ugly just so a corp won't use info I didn't consent to them using? While I like the idea of being able to follow friends of mine who are on AT instead of fedi, and refuse to use fedi, it's not worth it being so open; I always figured there would be an opt-in mechanism, not yet more opt-out stuff.
C'mon, @activitypubblueskybridge, haven't you seen how many times people offering only opt-out are shown the distaste for this? =/ 'bridge' or not, it's still technically a specialized service, it's not transparent just because things are duplicated both ways.
Shiri Bailem
in reply to Kay Ohtie • •@Kay Ohtie @SuperMoosie @JP @Zatty :meowybara: legal space is simple, TOS only applies to the service you're using. You're not using Bluesky, you're not using my instance.
For a TOS to apply you have to accept it in some fashion, most of these sites do this by either a passive "if you continue to use this site you implicitly accept the TOS" (and that can only reasonably apply while you're actively browsing the site, not for relayed fediverse messages) or a "to create an account you have to accept the TOS".
It's the same legal grounds as whether or not Yahoo's terms of service apply when I email someone who has a Yahoo account.
It's also a woefully flawed argument to assume that the loudest voices represent the majority. The majority don't care and the backlash just goes more to show the toxicity of Mastodon culture (and I mean Mastodon here, not ActivityPub)
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Sam :verified:
in reply to SuperMoosie • • •Shiri Bailem likes this.
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David B. Himself
in reply to SuperMoosie • • •Shiri Bailem likes this.
the roamer
in reply to Zatty :meowybara: • • •Tim Erickson, @stpaultim
in reply to the roamer • • •This argument about consent is fictional. Anyone can create a server on the Fediverse and everyone on the Fediverse is conntected, without their consent.
Bluesky could create a Mastodon server, any commercial entity can create a server and everyone is linked without consent.
The only way to preserve consent on the Fediverse, is to create a server that is not linked to other servers, in which case you don't have to worry about this bridge.
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Tim Erickson, @stpaultim
in reply to Tim Erickson, @stpaultim • • •Shiri Bailem likes this.
the roamer
in reply to Tim Erickson, @stpaultim • • •The BS bridge links to a commercial platform outside the Fediverse, rather than to other instances within the Fediverse. People sign up to their Fediverse instance in order to be connected within the Fediverse. Some people in the Fediverse also want to be connected to commercial external platforms, but many very definitely don't. They joined the Fediverse precisely because they want to be free from those platforms. That's where the "opt-out" mechanism violates consent.
#consent
Ben Thompson 🐕
in reply to Tim Erickson, @stpaultim • • •Tim Erickson, @stpaultim
in reply to Ben Thompson 🐕 • • •The developer has made clear that this bridge is only possible if Blue Sky turns on Federation and made clear it will be a two way bridge.
I'll leave it at that.
https://snarfed.org/2023-11-27_re-introducing-bridgy-fed
Re-introducing Bridgy Fed
snarfed.orgchris@strafpla.net
in reply to the roamer • • •However, blueky could easily become one of the too big to block instances on the fediverse, but with a different culture concerning moderation (and archiving), and that may become a problem.
Shiri Bailem
in reply to chris@strafpla.net • •@chris@strafpla.net @the roamer @Ryan Barrett @Zatty :meowybara: I don't think "Too Big To Block" is really an argument... If people don't want to talk to Bluesky users, they can block Bluesky. If Bluesky is so uncontrollably toxic as to create a critical problem, then why would you not block those posts?
The only time "Too Big To Block" really applies is the same time the people who aren't bothered by this... the people who prioritize getting as many people on the fediverse as possible to have as much reach as possible.
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chris@strafpla.net
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Mastodon/Fedi #moderation scales well because individual instances that don’t fit the culture on another instance can be blocked, instead of individual users. This “moderation by proxy” fails when an instance becomes #TooBigToBlock because it would cut off coms with a too large number of users. It’s a problem of (re-)centralizing.
@the_roamer @snarfed.org @zatnosk
Sam :verified:
in reply to Zatty :meowybara: • • •Please shut the fuck up.
Mastodon sends your posts to thousands of other servers without your consent. That is how ActivityPub works. This is doing absolutely nothing different.
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Markus
in reply to Sam :verified: • • •Bluesky isn't simply "another server"
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Victoria Fierce :vbike:
in reply to Markus • • •Världens bästa Kille™
in reply to Markus • • •Shiri Bailem likes this.
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Världens bästa Kille™
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Tim Erickson, @stpaultim
in reply to Sam :verified: • • •I'm in agreement with your arguments. But, I'm fully against the tone and the aggressiveness of your responses.
It's nice that Mastodon has such nice features to block users such as yourself.
Your account is an opt-out account. No one was asked to consent to your hostility, it's just part of the network, however everyone has the option to block it (opt out).
I expect, I'll be taking advantage of that feature.
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sour ._.
in reply to Sam :verified: • • •reshared this
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Blake Leonard
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •I'm a big fan of bridges and this is the big one I've been eagerly waiting for. I'll probably add it to my wizard soon after it's available. Once the moderation issues get sorted out, I firmly believe that in the end, this will be a net positive for both networks, since Bluesky users will be able to follow and engage with the vibrant and growing communities and services here, and we'll be able to follow and engage with shitposters from Bluesky.
The moderation issues should be sorted out promptly, and I'm a little disappointed that you're going to open it up with little consideration about mod tooling, especially considering the lists and lists of known problematic users on Bluesky, from mere crypto-shills and scammers to bigots, transphobes, racists, fascists, and genocide supporters. I don't have any way to find or use Bluesky's mod lists from here so there needs to be some other way.
Plus, I'm sure Bluesky users want a way to mass-mute and mass-block bridged users, maybe even from particular instances, especially considering our ongoing tone police and reply guy problems, which have driven numerous people from here to there. I feel like this part is imminently solvable with automatically-populated moderation list(s), though.
Bridge Finder
blakes.dev - Blake LeonardSuperMoosie
in reply to Blake Leonard • • •Where have we signed up for the bluesky TOS?
What gives this guy the right to copy our content we make for the fediverse available on a commercial network?
No one has consented for this.
Bridges need to be opt in.
@fediversenews @fedidevs @activitypubblueskybridge @snarfed.org @snarfed
Shiri Bailem
in reply to SuperMoosie • •@SuperMoosie @Ryan Barrett @Ryan Barrett @Blake Leonard to be clear, where have you signed up for my server's TOS? And I don't mean that just to be silly, it's very explicitly how the legal take works here.
You can not apply your TOS to outside users and they can't apply their TOS to you. If you take issue with it you can block the instance.
And as far as "Bridges should be opt in" that ship passed decades ago, bridges aren't remotely new, this is just probably the first you've noticed.
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Darryl Wright
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •FinchHaven
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Opt-in only, or I #DomainBlock
What is that again?
bsky.brid.gy?
So noted...
I want *nothing* to do with #Bluesky
#NoBridge has been added to my profile
cc @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews@venera.social
Shiri Bailem
in reply to FinchHaven • •@FinchHaven @Ryan Barrett ... "opt-in or I opt-out"?
How's that a threat? It's literally how these things work...
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unlofl [Promoted Toot]
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •@activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews "Moderate people, not code"
You do not have the resources to moderate everything that will flow over this bridge, so you shouldn't do it. Your project will force this work on other instance mods.
Opt-out is unethical because people aren't aware they're being opted-in, but also because it makes this bigger and dumps more work on other instances.
unlofl [Promoted Toot]
in reply to unlofl [Promoted Toot] • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to unlofl [Promoted Toot] • •@unlofl [Promoted Toot] @Ryan Barrett That's literally a whitelist server, you join a server that only federates with pre-approved servers.
That's the only functional way if you want to pro-actively avoid being accessible from all bridges. Though to be honest you can also just pay attention to the usernames of whomever follows you to see if it's a bridge account, not like it's hard to spot randomuser:bluesky@instance
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Kiki Sorsan sisko
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Toa :fumo_cirno:
in reply to Kiki Sorsan sisko • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to Toa :fumo_cirno: • •reshared this
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Joshix
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •reshared this
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Ryan Barrett
in reply to Joshix • • •I'm happy to opt you out manually, as I mentioned, you don't have to change your bio.
Joshix
2024-02-12 21:06:54
Yas-O-Lantern :baba_baba_yaseen: :agenderFlag: :transgenderFlag:
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •@snarfed.org@fed.brid.gy I think you do not – or perhaps deliberately do not – understand the concept of “informed consent”. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you have good intentions here. The road to hell is paved with those, and this is going to be another slab.
You are also assuming that people who do not want this will somehow be aware that this is happening, find your blog post (that nobody will ever read) and then realise they should put a hashtag in their bio to remove themselves. That’s not really an “opt-out” because how will anyone know this is happening? Even if a hundred people boost your primary post, that is only a small selection of all fediverse users, let alone instances that even know.
That means there is no way that any given user will even know they can opt-out of something that they do not even know is scraping them. How can you moderate user behaivour when you do not even know this is happening in the first place?
Especially since this means our posts will be on BlueSky, without any recourse for us to remove them from BlueSky because we do not have a consent agreement with BlueSky.
This is also highly illegal under the GDPR, which applies in the EEA and UK, which means you are breaking the law of 30+ nations at the same time. So not only are you just oblivious to the concept of “hey, I don’t like my posts being on BlueSky”, you are also oblivious to your legal requirements as a data handler.
Shiri Bailem
in reply to Yas-O-Lantern :baba_baba_yaseen: :agenderFlag: :transgenderFlag: • •@New Yastendo 3DS XL :baba_baba_yaseen: :agenderFlag: :transgenderFlag: @Ryan Barrett consent comes from posting publicly on the fediverse and is easily revocable by blocking their bridge.
Additionally, the way bridges operate normal moderation tools continue to exist just fine. Users and instances can block the bridge easily from their end if they have any issues, the opt-out mechanism here really is just an extra courtesy that's largely unecessary.
As far as posts being "on Bluesky" it's really important to note that your post will be "on Bluesky" to the exact same extent that it is on my server. Bluesky promised ages ago to federate, just under their own protocol which they're releasing and subsequently federating to. This is not echoing posts onto the Bluesky server (that's explicitly not a bridge, that's a mirror account), as a bridge all it's doing is translating requests between ActivityPub and AT (their protocol).
Additionally GDPR only applies within compliant countries (OP is in the US), this could theoretically apply if someone were to run their own copy of this in a GDPR compliant country, but it would also apply similarly to many other ActivityPub functions and activities (is every server using a relay in violation of the GDPR because it's a nearly identical process on a technical level?)
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Shiri Bailem
in reply to Joshix • •@Joshix 🦣 @Ryan Barrett ... notice that they didn't make that the only option, just a passive option that doesn't involve sending a special request. Just ping them a message with "I'd like to opt out of your bridge", done.
Or if you don't want to interact with them, lookup how to block a domain in mastodon and you'll be covered even better.
Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Noxy 🐾
in reply to Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲 • • •River :therian:
in reply to Noxy 🐾 • • •Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲
in reply to Noxy 🐾 • • •Pusher Of Pixels (old account)
in reply to Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲 • • •"I have essentially zero issue with a public post of mine being visible to any and all"
YOU speak for only YOU. Yet you seem happy to subject others to your comfort zone.
Do you not see why that's a significant problem?
Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲
in reply to Pusher Of Pixels (old account) • • •Bridgy Fed
fed.brid.gyPusher Of Pixels (old account)
in reply to Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲 • • •So you're supposition is people can choose how widely seen their content is?
That's kinda ironic considering this is entirely without choice for the vast majority who won't even know about it.
OptOut is a terrible idea on every angle.
Chris Trottier
in reply to Pusher Of Pixels (old account) • • •@AS4gBPS9axYI2RYbEe.snarfed.org@snarfed.org Opt-out is the default of the Fediverse. As a server admin, I don’t actively choose who federates with me. Federation happens as soon as my server “sees” another.
There is a way to change this default towards opt-in, and that’s by whitelisting. Most servers, including universeodon.com, don’t choose to go this route because it severely affects their visibility.
Another problem is that, even if you whitelist, once your content federates onto another server, it is beyond your control. It exists elsewhere. A malicious party who is on another server may interact with it in a distasteful, insensitive, perhaps illegal manner.
The way some servers have gotten around this is by turning off federation entirely. That is an option, but probably not one that most people on the Fediverse want.
Universeodon Social Media
Mastodon hosted on universeodon.comtallship
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Yes indeed, Thanks for making that clarification for all of the clueless people posting here who hitherto believed otherwise, as if they ever had it that way.
They'll complain and threaten to go somewhere else, and of course, they're welcome to that option as well, but in the end...
"“Life's but a walking shadow; a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”
#tallship #FOSS #Fediverse #bridges #innovation #fools
⛵️
.
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Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲
in reply to Pusher Of Pixels (old account) • • •uh yeah, that's the whole point. This bridge acts just like a regular Fedi user and follows all the same rules. If the bridge can't see your posts, it can't do anything with them - and you have full control over how visible your posts are. You also have the option of adding a hashtag to your profile, defederating from the domain the bridge lives on, or contacting the dev for a manual opt-out.
Plus, as far as I can tell, absolutely none of this is intended to happen in a vacuum. The documentation I linked earlier explains that users who are followed via the bridge still get a notification that they were followed, just like they were followed by a regular Fedi account. You'll see the BlueSky user names of each user that follows you through the bridge, and you'll be able to block individual users from seeing your account through the bridge if you so choose (in addition to the options above).
You'll have the same control over who can see your content that you would with any other Fedi user.
I'd strongly recommend reading the documentation to get a better understanding of how this is intended to work when it goes live.
chris@strafpla.net
in reply to Pusher Of Pixels (old account) • • •@baralheia @noxypaws @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
🌸 lily 🏳️⚧️ :flag_pansexual: :flag_ace: θΔ ⋐ & ∞
in reply to chris@strafpla.net • • •chris@strafpla.net
in reply to 🌸 lily 🏳️⚧️ :flag_pansexual: :flag_ace: θΔ ⋐ & ∞ • • •Do you think that people who don’t know about the bridge would give a fsck about it - taking into account that their public posts are visible on instances of lemmy, friendica, pleroma,… and they don’t know about it?
Isn’t the way this bridge to bluesky is implemented exactly the way that another service on the fedi should be implemented?
Is it because bluesky is a commercial instance?
@pixelpusher220 @baralheia @noxypaws @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
🌸 lily 🏳️⚧️ :flag_pansexual: :flag_ace: θΔ ⋐ & ∞
in reply to chris@strafpla.net • • •chris@strafpla.net
in reply to 🌸 lily 🏳️⚧️ :flag_pansexual: :flag_ace: θΔ ⋐ & ∞ • • •So what’ the difference between the fedi
and bridged bluesky?
Just the protocol? What parts/variants?
If I ask those very angry posters in this thread, can they explain to me what activitypub is?
What about services that use OStatus? Are they fedi? And then most posts are accessible using rss and some are integrating this into their blogs.
Is wordpress an ok member of the fediverse?
@pixelpusher220 @baralheia @noxypaws @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
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chris@strafpla.net
in reply to chris@strafpla.net • • •where does it have to be implemented? Can a service use a different protocol for internal communication and communicate to external instances using AP? Can this part run as a separate server? What’s the difference to a bridge?
No, this drama is not about the protocol.
“The Fedi” means something(s) else and we need to understand this to solve the drama.
@pixelpusher220 @baralheia @noxypaws @snarfed.org @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
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Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲
in reply to Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲 • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲 • •@Baral'heia Stormdancer🔜 AnEx @Ryan Barrett that's pretty much already native with how a bridge works.
When a Bluesky user goes to follow you, you'll get a follow request from that user:instance@bridge (or similiar format username).
A lot of the confusion and freak out comes from people (a) not knowing how bridges work and (b) taking vague offense because they don't like Bluesky and think that the whole fediverse should conform to their personal standards
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Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲
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Shiri Bailem
in reply to Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲 • •@Baral'heia Stormdancer🔜 AnEx @Ryan Barrett wouldn't really be possible because they couldn't know to send it until some action had already been taken on your account over the bridge. Let alone the fact that it would be incredibly spammy and still be an opt-out system.
It's important to note that Bridges have existed for decades, a lot longer than ActivityPub has been a thing (and a lot of people don't realize there are other fediverse protocols, let alone older ones...), probably longer than I've been a thing.
Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •Shiri Bailem
in reply to Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲 • •@Baral'heia Stormdancer 🔜 TFF @Ryan Barrett how would it get the follow activity without already bridging the profile? That's the part you're missing.
And again, it's a massively burdensome process that is a wild departure from federation standards, both in following and in how bridges operate.
Baral'heia Stormdancer ΘΔ🐲
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •hazelnot :yell:
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Cătă doesn't like this.
Shiri Bailem
in reply to hazelnot :yell: • •@hazelnot :yell: @Ryan Barrett reporting you to your server admins for violating rule 7 on your server...
Bridges are a dime a dozen (literally there are so many out there already and this is open source so good luck de-federating them all without just joining a whitelist server), the fediverse doesn't work the way you think it does, bridges probably don't work the way you think they do, and dogpiling on someone for sharing their project for feedback, especially for offering a polite feature to exclude yourself from the bridge which no other bridge I've seen offers just makes it clear you're an asshole.
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Evan Minto
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •like this
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Shiri Bailem
in reply to Evan Minto • •Cătă
in reply to hazelnot :yell: • • •Luca Sironi likes this.
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hazelnot :yell:
in reply to Cătă • • •Cătă doesn't like this.
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Cătă
in reply to hazelnot :yell: • • •@hazelnot :yell: you give consent when you publicly post something online. In fact, guess what, I can see your profile and whatever you publicly post without even logging in to your instance. How? I use a web browser.
Did you also give your consent to an obscure 3rd party app to display your content inside it? No. Let's just ban them all then, just like Xitter and Reddshit did, or like Meta/Faceshit did in the 1st place.
Oh, it's so great when we have stuff to help us reach content, from friends, from people we follow, but God forbid someone else reaches our content from other parts of the internet. Those that want that are just techbros.
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the roamer
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Jess
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •@activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
So,
if me or other trans* individuals, or other marginalized groups (many of whom I'm sure will *never* see your post with the genuinely shit opt-out option) are harassed or otherwise receive uninvited abuse and commentary through your bridge, are you prepared to face legal challenges brought against you?
Arataka
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Lorrie W 🇺🇦
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •@activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
I want to OPT OUT please.
#NoBridge for me.
This should have been an OPT-IN only
:gay: zetta :transknife:
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Adam ♿
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Dorothea Salo
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Congratulations! You convinced me to block your entire domain!
Well done, you exploitative git.
Thomas
in reply to Dorothea Salo • • •Shiri Bailem
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smeg
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •alex :nonbinary_flag:
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •@activitypubblueskybridge
Making this on an opt-out basis was a horrible, horrible decision. Please opt me out, and never, ever, include me in any future bridges.
Black Aziz Anansi :vm:
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •Delta Sierra
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •@activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Such a service should be opt-in only, for the handful of folks who DO want their content used to generate traffic for Bluesky.
As I'm not one of those people, I am notifying you that I am opting out. It'd be nice if that request was honored, but realistically I know it won't be.
So fuck you.
Jess
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •if me or other trans* individuals, or other marginalized groups (many of whom I'm sure will *never* see your post with the genuinely shit opt-out option) are harassed or otherwise receive uninvited abuse and commentary through your bridge, are you prepared to face legal challenges brought against you?
Shiri Bailem
in reply to Jess • •@Jess @Ryan Barrett as a fellow trans* individual: you're either probably not familiar with how bridges work or you are not using safe practices and taking things for granted.
There are already many bridges on ActivityPub to much worse parts of the fediverse and they're not making waves (if you think Bluesky is bad, you should see Nostr). If they start harassing a user you treat it exactly the same as you would someone showing up to harass you from a new Neo-Nazi Mastodon instance, you can either block the user or block the whole bridge (only downside of a bridge is that you can't really block by individual server on the other side, it's either block individual users or the whole bridge).
This also has absolutely no threat of legal challenges to go along with it, it falls under numerous legal protections. Let alone the argument will absolutely fall apart in court that someone would complain about easily blockable abuse on a public post.
In case you're not aware, because it seems a lot of people think a bridge is some sort of web-scraper... it's a translator between protocols. It's not scraping your profile and copying posts, it's translating ActivityPub requests to Bluesky requests and back.
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Johannes Hentschel
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •@activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews
Shiri Bailem
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Johannes Hentschel
in reply to Shiri Bailem • • •@snarfed.org
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Shiri Bailem
in reply to Johannes Hentschel • •@Johannes Hentschel @Ryan Barrett oh I know full well, I'm deeply conscious of the bounds of my privacy, both what is under my control and what isn't.
I'm tired of the ideological purism present on the fediverse, especially from the Mastodon users who think they own the place and that their clique's reflect not only the norms, but the reality of how the world works.
If you care about the privacy to that extent, then you should be making your posts private to begin with, full stop. I recognize the difference between concerns and paranoia, it's why I've told many people throughout the thread that if they really mean what they say they should find a whitelist server.
People assume my cavalier attitude means I don't care about privacy or security... it doesn't come from not caring, it comes from being explicitly conscious of the decisions I've made regarding each. The fear comes from people who want others to accommodate their fear while they do nothing.
:PUA: Shlee fucked around and
in reply to Ryan Barrett • • •