How the quote-post debate demonstrates that many Mastodon users know nothing about the Fediverse
One of the worst aspects of Mastodon's plans to introduce quote-posts with a switch:
You keep having to tell Mastodon users that the Fediverse is not only Mastodon. That (insert a long list of Fediverse server applications hereยน) have had quote-posts from the beginning. That they're all in the Fediverse. That they're all fully federated with Mastodon. That they can all quote-post any Mastodon toot they can possibly receive or import. And that they will be able to quote-post any Mastodon toot they can in the future, regardless of Mastodon account settings.
Up until this point, they were fully, firmly convinced that they're 100% safe from quote-posts on Mastodon. Either because they could not for the lives of them imagine that anything in the Fediverse has them. Or simply because they "knew" up until this point that the Fediverse is Mastodon. And if Mastodon introduces an opt-out or opt-in switch, this switch will mean absolute, 100% water-tight safety from quote-posts.
But for the Fediverse outside of Mastodon, the quote-post switch will be completely useless. Again: These lots of Fediverse server apps have had quote-posts before Mastodon introduced them. They had quote-posts before Mastodon invented the opt-in or opt-out switch. I mean, at least two of them have had quote-posts since before Mastodon even existed! So how are they supposed to support a proprietary, non-standard, Mastodon-specific switch which probably won't be documented anywhere before Mastodon rolls out quote-posts?
I'll tell you what'll happen.
Mastodon users will deactivate quote-posts for their accounts or not activate them in the first place. Non-Mastodon users, not knowing about the status of that switch, will quote-post them regardless with zero resistance. Upon which these Mastodon users will shit brix. And they'll call for either blocking that obviously rogue Mastodon user instance-wide, or blocking that user's instance, or Fediblocking that user's instance.
At this point, someone else who is not on Mastodon either will chime in and tell them: That particular user is, in fact, not on Mastodon. The Fediverse is not only Mastodon. That user is on Friendica. No, Friendica is not a rogue Mastodon instance. Friendica is not Mastodon at all. No, Friendica isn't a Mastodon fork either. Friendica has nothing to do with Mastodon. In fact, Friendica is older than Mastodon. On Friendica, quote-posts are perfectly normal. Friendica has had quote-posts for longer than Mastodon has even existed. And so forth.
Cue the Mastodon user shitting brix again, foaming with anger and calling for a Fediblock of all of Friendica.
In fact, I'm pretty sure that if Mastodon's quote-post feature and the rest of the Fediverse disregarding it leads to more awareness of the non-Mastodon Fediverse and its non-Mastodon features on Mastodon, it will also lead to demands for being able to completely block everything that isn't Mastodon, either on an account level (and then on by default, of course) or on an instance level or both.
Oh, by the way: The ability to completely lock out entire Fediverse projects already exists in the Fediverse right now, too. It's exclusive to two other Fediverse server apps that aren't Mastodon, both of which introduced this feature in September.
ยนHere's a probably incomplete list of still-active Fediverse server apps with quote-posts which, yes, can quote-post Mastodon toots right now and will be able to quote-post Mastodon toots regardless of opt-in or opt-out:
- Pleroma
- Akkoma
- Misskey
- Firefish
- Sharkey
- Iceshrimp
- Iceshrimp.NET
- CherryPick
- Neko
- Catodon
- Meisskey
- Tanukey
- Metaskey
- Mitra
- Friendica
- Hubzilla
- (streams)
- Forte
And both Threads and the Bridgy Fed Bluesky bridge support quote-posts, too.
(Inb4 both Oliphant and The Bad Space trying hard to catch all instances of the server apps mentioned above to blocklist them all.)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Calckey #Firefish #Sharkey #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp.NET #CherryPick #Neko #Catodon #Meisskey #Tanukey #Metaskey #Mitra #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Threads #BridgyFed #Bluesky #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #FediblockMeta #Oliphant #TheBadSpace
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Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •By the way, there's exactly one way of being safe from being quote-posted in the Fediverse:
Move to Hubzilla or (streams). Keep all optional communications protocols off, including ActivityPub. Disallow quoting and mirroring of your posts entirely in your channel role (on Hubzilla) or keep your channel type on Limited ((streams)). Make sure that none of your contact roles (Hubzilla) or permission roles ((streams)) allows it. Try to live with only contacts on Hubzilla and (streams); none of them would ever use quote-posts for nefarious reasons, but better safe than sorry. Always post to a restricted audience so that sharing your posts isn't possible anyway. And never comment on public posts so that sharing your comments isn't possible either.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate
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Der Pepe (Hubzilla) โ โ
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •Tejan Ausland
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •Jupiter Rowland likes this.
Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Tejan Ausland • • •@Tejan Ausland Yes, but many on Mastodon don't understand this.
For them, the Mastodon devs are the creators and keepers of the Fediverse itself as well as "the good guys" who have made the single most awesome piece of server software in decades. If the Mastodon devs even only imply that an opt-out or opt-in switch for quote-posts will bring absolute safety from being quote-posted, they take it at face value.
So when they opt out of being quote-posted, and someone from outside of Mastodon quote-posts them anyway, they won't blame it on the Mastodon devs having promised them something impossible. Never would the Mastodon devs do that.
Rather, the devs behind whatever that someone is using are the bad guys. They're rogues, they're evil hackers who have introduced quote-posts just to be able to spite and harass Mastodon users. Why else would something introduce quote-posts after all?
The one thing that'll protect wherever that someone is from their wrath is that most of them won't be able to figure out what that someone is using. Just because Mastodon users can look up a post at its source, doesn't mean they know they can, much less they actually do.
So they may try to get allegedly rogue instances Fediblocked just because these instances are non-Mastodon instances doing what they regularly do. They may succeed because at least some blocklist maintainers don't have a clue about the Fediverse outside Mastodon, its capabilities and its culture either. But it's unlikely that they'll pinpoint this culprit having used Sharkey, have all of Sharkey Fediblocked for being able to "circumvent" Mastodon's quote-post opt-out/opt-in, then pinpoint that the next quote-poster is using Akkoma and have all of Akkoma Fediblocked and so forth.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #Blocklist #Blocklists #BlocklistMeta #FediblockMeta
Der Pepe (Hubzilla) โ โ
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •I still haven't really realised what the problem with quote postings is.
If I say something publicly, then I shouldn't care if others pick up on what I said and discuss it in another thread. They can do that โbis die Schwarte krachtโ. If I don't want something like that, I'm not allowed to post publicly.
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Hamiller Hubzilla
in reply to Der Pepe (Hubzilla) โ โ • • •@Der Pepe (Hubzilla) โ โ
On Twitter/X, it was often used to start a separate thread with the quote, mocking the original author.
Eugen wanted to prevent this with Mastodon and had not implemented it. But a large amount of X refugees now demand it.
Der Pepe (Hubzilla) โ โ
in reply to Hamiller Hubzilla • • •like this
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Lasse Gismo - ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐บ๐ฆ๐ธ๐ฉ
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •@crossgolf_rebel
A stupid question - what's the prob with quoted posts?
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Calckey #Firefish #Sharkey #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp #CherryPick #Neko #Catodon #Meisskey #Tanukey #Metaskey #Mitra #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #Forte #Threads #BridgyFed #Bluesky #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #FediblockMeta #Oliphant
Scott M. Stolz
in reply to Lasse Gismo - ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐บ๐ฆ๐ธ๐ฉ • • •@Lasse Gismo - ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐บ๐ฆ๐ธ๐ฉ
Some people abuse them. They quote someone and then mock them for what they said.
Since it is a quote, the original author can no longer edit it and they can't delete it either.
This mocking is probably the biggest issue, but there are other groups that don't like it too. For example, people can no longer say something and deny saying it later since it was quoted. And people who say things they probably should not say don't like being quoted either.
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Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Scott M. Stolz • • •@Lasse Gismo - ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐บ๐ฆ๐ธ๐ฉ @Scott M. Stolz
More specifically:
On Twitter/๐, hateful right-wing people harass members of marginalised minorities (BIPoC, 2SLGBTQIA+ etc.) by quote-tweeting one of their tweets, mocking them in the tweet that quote-tweets them and then having others mock them even more in the replies. This is so commonplace that it feels like the only use-case that quote-tweets still have on ๐.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #Twitter #๐ #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets
morph โ
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •Scott M. Stolz likes this.
NorVegan
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •like this
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